Is it bad for the tranny to shift without the clutch, I was bored the other night and figured out how to do it. I just rev the engine to the rpm where it would shift and it goes right in no problem. its on a 86 f250 4speed..

 

You figured out how to drive a semi at the same time. Typically smaller turck transmissions aren't as forgiving as the big rigs so if you make too many mistakes you'll have some long term damage.

 

It won't hurt anything if you do it right but if you don't.............................

It's easier now with better and stronger syronizers than it was years ago. I learned when I was 15 in a 41 Chevrolet Special Deluxe with vacuum shift. Darn car cost me $30.00.

 

It's not a problem as long as your technique is perfect every time you do it. Good luck! You'll probably get away with a little grindage but if I were you I'd look for another cure for boredom.

On the flip side, having some cluchless skill could help in a pinch when the clutch aint right, or when driving with one leg up on the dash (don't ask). Practice in an insured rental.

 

I've always shifted big trucks without the clutch because it's alot easier than double-clutching. In my previous truck, a '98 Ranger 5-speed, I could occasionally shift without the clutch if I revved it high enough, but since I didn't have a tach I couldn't match it perfectly, and I figured it wasn't real good for the tranny either.

 

Thread moved to Clutch and Transmission forum.

I used to do it from time to time in my old 85 F-150. You just gotta match the rpms up and you should be good.

-Matt

 

It is doable, but like the guys say, you gotta do it right, it should just slide in without any force. If you have to force it, you will wear it out. Too much of this will wear out the synchros and maybe cause the gears to clash.

I used to do this for fun and often under hard acceleration when I was younger and not too bright. I got to have my synchros replaced at 80K because of that. Once I changed my driving habits I got another 100K on the tranny with the same clutch and no rebuild before I sold it.

However, it may be a worthwhile thing to learn to do since once in a great while you will lose your clutch cylinder or cable and be forced to shift without the clutch. You can even start from a dead stop without the clutch but I don't recommend it for everyday driving.

Good Luck, use the clutch, it is cheap.

Jim Henderson

 

Theoritically it is mechanically possibly to upshift all day long with no ill effect. That is theory. All manual transmissions adhere to this. Anyone remember the early 70's bug with a manual shift, no clutch?

My 1990 Jetta I did this all the time when I was too lazy to push the clutch. Drive a car long enough and you will get the feel for it. Motorcycle racers do this religiously.

It was an interesting situation when I had to learn how do shift without a clutch in my Explorer. I was trapped 20 miles from the highway offroad in the desert about 100 degree heat - not too bad. The clutch master went - foot straight to the floor, no clutch. So in 4 W low I had to start it in gear and drive out of hill climbs and gulleys and finally got to the road. Then I realized, that was the easy part. Now I actually had to get going on the highway and shift gears into traffic without a clutch. This was not at all like the Jetta that wanted to shift about mid range 3,000 RPM. No the Explorer wanted big 4K to 4.5 K R's before it wanted to shift. Drove home about 25 miles that way mainly through city street traffic, anticipating the lights since you can't really downshift without the clutch. Fun stuff.

 

yes you can down shift without a clutch. down shifting without the clutch is about the same as up shifting.
first watch your tach while up shifting and remember the uper and lower rpm ranges of each gear.
Now when you want to down shift from say 4th to third let the rpms fall to the low end of the rpm range of 4th then as you put some pressure on the stick give the gas peddle a tap. this will allow the shifter to EFFORTLESSLY (no forcing) slip or FLOAT out of gear into neutral now get the rpms up to the high range of the next lowest gear(3rd) as you put presure on the stick it should slip or float right into the next lowest gear when the rpms are high enough for the down shift.
if you have to force the stick at all you are doing it wrong.

 

M5OD's don't do this. At all. No way to get the darn thing to do it without forcing it.

 

Hey Flare - M5OD in my Explorer. I will upshift ALL DAY LONG with out a clutch. I tried to downsift without a clutch but it was too harassing with the rest or traffic, lights, motorist responsibilities...just put it in nuetral and use the brakes when you need to stop.

This is emergency situations folks.

 

I've done it on my ranger a few times, shift from 2nd to 3rd at 37mph, 3rd to 4th at 47. havent been able to get 1st to 2nd figured out yet though. this is with an 83 ranger with the 4 spd tranny and 2.0l motor. I prefer to use the clutch though. shifting without using the clutch isnt something I enjoy doing too much, dont want to break my only ride for the moment and spend more money when I dont even have the new motor and tranny yet.

 

Yes you can!
There's nothing special about an M5OD that would stop you:
Hints:
You need to have tippy-toe perfect throttle control for some trannys. The M5 may be one of them.
If you're having to force it OUT of gear, you're being too heavy on the gas. When you practice, maintain LIGHT pressure on the gearstick and slowly bring your foot off the gas pedal until the point where you're at NEUTRAL THROTTLE, ie neither accelerating nor decelerating. Just right at the point where you reach neutral throttle, the gears in your transmission will go from being loaded and driven, to being unloaded and free. Just for a split second. THAT'S the exact moment it'll ease right out of gear. Then adjust the revs slightly, up for a downshift and down for an upshift, and when you have the RPMs right, she'll pop right into the next gear.
DON'T force it. You'll damage the tranny. Throttle control is the absolute key. I bought my last semi tractor (A Volvo) thinking it needed a new clutch soon but I still managed another 240,000 miles before I had the shop renew the clutch.

 

I have a M5OD, and it can definitely be done, both up and down. You must be VERY in sync with your vehicle. If you do it right, it will pop right in. Like everyone says, if you have to force it, you're doing it wrong.

 

I have done it with the M5OD too, but I still use the clutch all the time because its just easier.
Clutchless shifting with a truck is a lot easier than it is with a pick-up or any gas engine because your dealing with a lot lower RPM. Also the diesel engines are a lot slower to rev compared to a small gas engine which also makes it easier. Thats makes it so you don't have to pay so much attention to the tach when shifting without the clutch.
With my old Detroits as soon as you hit 2200 RPM you just let off the pedel and pull it out of gear, then as soon as you get it to the next gear the RPM's have already dropped down to exactally 1700 to easilly slide right in. Same thing with downshifting. Pop it out of gear and bump the throttle and the engine revs slow enoufgh that it will be at the right RPM by the time you get the shifter to the next gear. I also have done it with an old Mack with a 20 speed twin stick and it all works the same way, but you would have to shift the auxillary first, then the main.
It doesn't take much practice to do it with the truck, but in a pick-up with a gas engine it does. I had a friend of mine that bought a 95 Dodge with the 318 and a 5 speed brand new and he never shifted with the clutch because he thought he was good at it. In about 1 year he went through the syncros on every gear.