Now _I_ have a Starting Problem!
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 1
From: Northern Colorado
Now _I_ have a Starting Problem!
The last two mornings I have had one heck of a time getting her to fire off. Not cold mornings, about 32º to 38º F. The first time, I figured it was due to just completing the hutch mod and had air in the lines or rails. I ran it around after starting yesterday for about 30 miles to make sure most of the air was out but it did it again this morning.
Symptoms:
TONS of white smoke while cranking from the pipe.
Seems to want to light on the second or third crank when turning over then just cranks again.
Once started and warmed, it will fire up immediately even with one battery disconnected.
Original Motocraft batteries:
battery voltage when sitting: 12.96 volts (both checked unhooked)
voltage at idle: 14.02v
voltage at 1100 rpm: 14.05v
I got it finally started by jumping with a partially discharged RV deep cycle battery out of the 5ver but still had to crank a bunch to get it to go. After warmed up, when I put the el-cheepo automatic battery charger on the batteries, it indicates a full charge in less than 45 seconds of charging.
I'm thinking batteries but they sure don't act bad.
Symptoms:
TONS of white smoke while cranking from the pipe.
Seems to want to light on the second or third crank when turning over then just cranks again.
Once started and warmed, it will fire up immediately even with one battery disconnected.
Original Motocraft batteries:
battery voltage when sitting: 12.96 volts (both checked unhooked)
voltage at idle: 14.02v
voltage at 1100 rpm: 14.05v
I got it finally started by jumping with a partially discharged RV deep cycle battery out of the 5ver but still had to crank a bunch to get it to go. After warmed up, when I put the el-cheepo automatic battery charger on the batteries, it indicates a full charge in less than 45 seconds of charging.
I'm thinking batteries but they sure don't act bad.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 1
From: Northern Colorado
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
Glow plugs are not getting hot. There's nothing else wrong.
Ever hear of a GPR sticking!
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,897
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From: Northeastern Pa - USA
are you checking the glow plugs themselves? I'm not an electrical engineer but is it possible to get power to the glow plug relay and not to the glow plugs and not show up on the meter? Try using the block heater two hours before lift off. If it starts up its a good bet its the glow plugs or even one causing the problem. I know if all the blue lights arent working at Kmart, the old girl wont shop.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Just jump the two big posts of the relay tomorrow morning with a big screw driver for 30 seconds and have your wife hit the starter. It will start easily. That will also confirm a dead relay.
I can't stress enough how dependant a cold deisel engine is on a good strong functioning glow plug system to start easily.
Bunch of smoke and no start on a cold engine is a dead giveaway.
I can't stress enough how dependant a cold deisel engine is on a good strong functioning glow plug system to start easily.
Bunch of smoke and no start on a cold engine is a dead giveaway.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 1
From: Northern Colorado
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
Just jump the two big posts of the relay tomorrow morning with a big screw driver for 30 seconds and have your wife hit the starter..............
What I will do is put the VOM on the GPR before I turn the key and see if I have anything there. If not, I do the sparkie-shortout thing for about 60 seconds and hit the key.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by guzzle92
Get the wife out of bed that early ....
What I will do is put the VOM on the GPR before I turn the key and see if I have anything there. If not, I do the sparkie-shortout thing for about 60 seconds and hit the key.
What I will do is put the VOM on the GPR before I turn the key and see if I have anything there. If not, I do the sparkie-shortout thing for about 60 seconds and hit the key.
My wife is the same way. I dare NOT wake her up. 
She'll be grumpy all day. 
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Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Northern Colorado
Update:
I got up this am and immediately went out and put the VOM on the GPR. Turned the key on and nothing coming out of the GPR. Shorted out the terminals on the GPR (man does that screwdriver get hot!) but not long enough. Tried to fire, but just cranked. More white smoke. Went back around and started to short it out again and heard a "clunk" come from the GPR. Checked the voltage again and had voltage coming out of the GPR now. Cycled the key one more time and she lit right off.
I guess what I have is an intermittant GPR. When it is warm, it works fine. Get it cold and it won't.... (I think I burned my thumb on that d@*#
screwdriver
). Now back to searching the forum for a part number.
I got up this am and immediately went out and put the VOM on the GPR. Turned the key on and nothing coming out of the GPR. Shorted out the terminals on the GPR (man does that screwdriver get hot!) but not long enough. Tried to fire, but just cranked. More white smoke. Went back around and started to short it out again and heard a "clunk" come from the GPR. Checked the voltage again and had voltage coming out of the GPR now. Cycled the key one more time and she lit right off.
I guess what I have is an intermittant GPR. When it is warm, it works fine. Get it cold and it won't.... (I think I burned my thumb on that d@*#
screwdriver
). Now back to searching the forum for a part number.
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 371
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Glad you found the problem. For future reference, the glow plugs drag down the battery voltage by at least one volt. Hook up a voltmeter to the battery, put it where you can see it, and turn on the key. You will instantly learn if the glo plugs are on without burning your finger on a hot screwdriver.
Warren
Warren
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 1
From: Northern Colorado
Originally Posted by warrens250
........ You will instantly learn if the glo plugs are on without burning your finger on a hot screwdriver.
Honestly tho, I new the relay was not working at that point and needed to get the truck running by shorting out the relay to try and get the GPs hot.I was curious why the GPR would just quit all of a sudden like that, so after going to AutoZone and picking up a MR-99 relay ($14) I opened up the old one to do a little investigation. I was assuming that the contacts were just burned and no longer making good connection. I was wrong. The contacts were a little burned but the coil had just became so weak, it would not fully engage the contact plate. This explains why I could jar the GPR by tapping it pretty hard with a screwdriver and it would work - one time. Apparently it didn't go out all at once but has been working on kinkin' the bucket for some time.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 5
From: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
I can't stress enough how dependant a cold deisel engine is on a good strong functioning glow plug system to start easily.
Bunch of smoke and no start on a cold engine is a dead giveaway.
Bunch of smoke and no start on a cold engine is a dead giveaway.
I'm guessing GPR is working b/c it does start up - so maybe just one or two GPs are dead so not firing on all cylinders? Once ever (colder than usual outside) started but engine ran really rough and white smoke (not tons though).
Any ideas?