Ok im getting a little excited here about the rack that I should get next week so I'm trying to get every thing ready to go when it arives.

Ive got 1, 220V volt, 50 amp fuse in my box and 2 outlets. The air compressor runs off of fuse and the lift will too, currently my ARC welder uses one socket so I'll share between the lift and welder for now on the one socket.

1. Do you think the 50 amp fuse is enough to handle the two tools? I know the compressor has a 5 horse motor and the lift probably will too.

2. The compressor socket is an odd ball one and took a special make your own plug to fit which took a long time to chase down. The ARC welder plug looks like a standard 110 socket just bigger. Is this a common socket which I can find a plug for at home depot or lowes? I havent go a chance to look around yet.

3. I'm sure I'll find out when I get the rack which wire goes where but. The ARC welder has 3 wires, green black and white. Which wire goes to the ground slot, the 250V slot and the 50A slot. I will triple check the lift motor when it comes but either way I just would like an idea before hand.

This waiting stuff sucks!

 

Sounds like everything you have is 230 volt including the lift. What I did for a friend with only one 40 amp circuit to work with was reverse contacts on a magnetic starter so his parts washer heater was energized when the mag starter wasn't. When the compressor cut in the mag starter energized disconnecting the parts washer heater and energized the compressor. The problem I see is you have 3 items and you might have to run one at a time like switch off compressor before welding. Get everything first to know what your total current demand is before buying a starter. This is only a patch to run as you need a branch circuit upgrade.
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If it's a true fuse like the cartridge type, see if the wire is a large enough gauge to put in a 60 amp fuse. Should be a 1/0 wire I think. Check all of this out with a power distribution guy!!!. But, the point is that a 60 amp cartridge fuse is the same dimension as the 50. It may be a way to squeeze more potential out of the system.

 

Like Beemer Nut said, to start, figure out the total load for your 230v system. To do this, look at the compressor, the welder, and the lift and get the amp requirements for each. Add these up and you will have your total load. NEVER run a load of more than 80% of your circuit capacity. For example, with your 50 amp circuit, do not run more than 40 amps at one time. This 20% cushion allows for extra amp requirements for motor startups, etc.

230 volt plugs and outlets are sized according to their amperage capacity. As such, your three pieces of equipment may have three different plugs. One very important thing to remember is this: the circuit needs to be sized close to the load. For example, if your compressor requires 7 amps, run it on a 10 amp circuit. If you run it on a 50 amp circuit your equipment is not being adequately protected. This is because if the 15 amp motor gets hot, pulls too many amps and needs to trip the fuse/breaker to shut down, it will trip the 20 amp but won't trip the 50 amp, the motor will just burn out. If you have a dead short then the fuse/breaker will trip regardless of what size it is.

Your best solution will be to install new circuits and plugs for each piece of equipment.

Quote:

The ARC welder has 3 wires, green black and white. Which wire goes to the ground slot, the 250V slot and the 50A slot.

Now, please don't be offended by this next comment, it is intended for your safety: your comment shows me that you don't know the basics of how to wire this setup. If you don't know which wire (black, white, green) in a 230 volt setup goes to the ground, then you don't have any business wiring this right now. You need to hire an electrician, find someone who knows, or buy a book and learn about it (Lowe's or Home Depot have them). Again, I'm not trying to belittle you, just looking out for your safety and your equipment!

 

First of all these should be seperated, Get a qualified electrician to do this, if you can afford the lift, you need to splurge on the electrician.

You need an updated 8 circuit panel with breakers,theres nothing wrong with fuses other than all your applications. You can probably get a cheap 100a panel for $50 with breakers. Your ac should be on 20A double pole by itself,12/2 wire should be sufficient up to 15A Load, More than that switch to 10/2 with 30A double pole read the name plate rating. The stick Welder should have no less than #6 copper and fused at 50A no less.

The lift would work great with a 20A double pole and 12/2 for feed. and should not require anymore.

Do yourself a favor and do it right, I watched a guy tell me after I just replaced his burnt up breaker panel, that he had hooked up a circuit to his pool pump, would I go ahead and wire it in, I said I want to check all connections, and he didn't want me too, so I said I wouldn't warranty the panel If I couldn't d check it out. He wouldn't let me do it, so while I was cleaning up my mess, he pulled the cover back off and wired in his own circuit, flipped it on, the breaker tripped, he flipped it back on, he said to me the breakers tripping, i said just a second, he flipped it on a third time, he said ohhhhhh there it goes it stayed on this time. So i'm standing by his privacy fence saying by, looked over and pool pump is on fire, this also caught his deck on fire. So needless to say use a qualified electrician. I re-wire a lot of burn-outs usually caused by the same mess you have there, with your setup.

 

Do you mean TWO 50 amp fuses? Or maybe it isn't a fuse, but maybe one 50 amp double pole breaker?

A 240 volt circuit needs overcurrent/short circuit protection in EACH of the hot lines. So if you literally have only ONE fuse, then your current arrangement is grossly unsafe.

Many 240 volt welders use NEMA 6-50 plugs. These are consistent with the "giant household plug" appearance you describe. Receptacles to match are readily available at Home Depot.

A green wire should always be the ground wire. This goes to the longest prong on a NEMA 6-50 (this is also the round prong). The other two wires are the hot wires. They go to the other two prongs. The order does not matter.

The "80% rule" applies to "continuous loads". Your welder and lift are not continuous loads. The air compressor isn't either (in your circumstance), though it might be in some applications.

Motors are normally protected against overload by integral thermal protection or by a motor controller. It is not typical to rely on the branch circuit overcurrent protection to protect motor branch circuits from overload. A 240 volt air compressor drawing 7 full load amps would normally be operated from a circuit with a 20 amp breaker. A 10 amp breaker would be too small, and would tend to falsely trip due to the startup inrush circuit. The motor or appliance nameplate may specify min circuit ampacity and the max branch circuit overcurrent device.

 

Breakers at the service panel only protect the wire not the load.

Breakers/Fuses for circuit protection are sized according to the ampacity of the wire and then de-rated by the maximum expected ambient temperature and if in conduit "free space" or cable tray "#of conductors bundled" and type of "insulating jacket" on the conductor.

AMPACITY RULE OF THUMB:
#10 AWG has 1 Ohm per 1,000 ft and can handle 30 amps

Changing the wire size by 3 (Up) ~ doubles the resistance and halves the ampacity. Since #13 AWG is not common apply it to #14 which, is approx 15 amps.

Increase by another 3 ; again double the resistance halve the ampacity.

Go the other direction from #10 to #7, half the resistance double the ampacity, since #7 is not common apply to #8 which is ~60 amps, drop another 3 again half the resistance double the ampacity.

This is used soley for planning purposes!!!!!!

THE AMPACITY OF THE CONDUCTOR MUST BE DE-RATED as stated above to achieve a SAFE INSTALL & MEET CODE.

NEC used to say (have'nt read it in awhile) "overload protection for devices on a circuit should equal 125% of Max FLA (Full Load Amps) (start-up)". This is Regardless of duty cycle, 1 start or 100 starts.

Most single phase motors due have built in "Thermal Protection", in the event they do not then the motor must be protected with the correct size NEMA/IEEE Rated starter per the 125% rule. If it is magneticly protected other restrictions apply.

"Equipment Grounds" are required & necessary for Personnel Protection.

Furthermore a switch or other ON/OFF control device should be located within EYE SIGHT of the equipment to facilitate rapid shut down in the event of an emergency.

You should not attempt installation of any circuit without knowledge of ALL NEC & local code requirements and have documented training in the proper techniques and Industry Best Practices for the particular installation. MOST PLACES REQUIRE A MASTER ELECTRICIAN TO INSTALL ANYTHING.

You are not changing your oil!!!

 

I actually laughed when I read this after following the thread through. The implication is that there is something magical about electrical wiring and in reality it's common sense (which is not common), knowledge (which needs to be learned), and skill ( which most of us reading a do-it-yourself post can aquire)!

The person originally posting to this thread was asking to learn so he could solve the problem and do the work safely himself. No purpose was served by the responses acusing him of incompetence or belittling him for the lack of knowledge. He should be commended for asking questions and wanting to learn to do it correctly and as safely as possible rather than proceeding without researching and asking those of us who know to share our knowledge and experience with him.

My advice would be to manually switch off all but one of the 220 volt machines. Tools won't draw current when they are not running so multiple tools can be plugged into one correctly sized circuit as long only one tool is turned on at a time. I wouldn't promote that this as the best solution but in a 1 person home shop it's easy to control and short of installing new house and shop panels and running new electrical wiring it may be the only feasible solution.

This community grows by sharing information and we have an obligation to share our knowledge and promote safely by keeping everyone informed about best practices and the safety issues associated with do-it-yourself home shop projects.

 

I to can respect anyone looking for knowledge, and I also agree there is no reason to belittle anyone for asking. The responses given as I interpreted them did not necessarily berate or belittle anyone and were a reflection of the training and experience of the responders. Those responses also reflected the serious nature of the original question which, I'm not sure the poster fully appreciated. In nearly every reply there was a direct or indirect warning, a warning that should be heeded for good reasons;

Electricity is very reluctant to give second chances

Electrical common sense (or Best Practices) do not exist without understanding the Nature & Character of it, hence Training & Experience.

Electrical training revolves around the watchfull eye of Masters & Juorneyman with broad knowledge of the NEC.

An install that does not meet code is a tragedy waiting to happen, the only question is When and Who will be involed.

Using the wrong bolt or not torquing it to the correct value will not likely cause grievuos injury and what ever fails will just be a lesson for the future.

Electricity is not that forgiving, it must be right the first time.

It is far beyond the scope of any fourm to genericly respond to an Electrical question without full knowledge of what that person has in front of them.

We as a group can barely get it right when we are talking about the same trucks of the same year with same engines that have same problems. How could anyone in good concious recommend anything as far as a "major electrical" install from half way across the country??

By the way; Go get Your Masters while you still know everything, after all it's just "Common Sense"!!!

 

Sound advise. Motors are not cheap. When you blow one it is very impressive to watch, but expensive.

 

Sound advise. Motors are not cheap. When you blow one it is very impressive to watch, but expensive.

Find an electrician that will help you. There are plenty out there. First meeting is to identify your needs and to set you on the right path. Then the electrician comes back to check the wiring for code and make the final connection.

I have done this with the plumbing in my basement renovation. I can wire a house, plumb a shop for air but I have never been able to keep water from leaking. Go figure

 

I hope you didn't interpret my post as "belittling".
That certainly wasn't my intention. But, I don't agree with your statement.

What I said:

As others have said here too, electricity is very unforgiving. The original poster demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of electrical systems. My statement was made, just like I said, with his safety in mind. I certainly don't feel he is incompetent, he just apparently doesn't know what he's doing around electricity. I stand by my comments and suggested to him the same as you have (learn about it) or hire someone who knows. I DO commend him for asking questions when he didn't know, rather than guessing. Hopefully he has the problem solved by now.

I personally don't think it is wise or responsible to give electrical advice of that type over the internet. Here's why: none of us here know exactly what he has and how it is currently wired, or if it was done properly in the first place. For example, just because there is a 50 amp breaker/fuse in his panel doesn't necessarily mean that the wiring beyond that is rated for 50 amps.

 

So much for clear communication. My response was based on the assumption that SSCX2's existing wiring was to code and that his description of one fuse on a 220 volt circuit was an erronious description of a circuit breaker, which as pointed out can be a dangerous assumption and in that I stand corrected.

Following this thread now it appears that practically no one besides myself understood that all he was attempting to undertake was to change the plug end on his cords so he could plug them into an existing outlet. If anyone can explain to me why my advice to only use one tool on the electircal circuit at a time is a violation of the NEC I'll apologize. It would be a safe bet to assume that there aren't many people who have learned to change the plug end on a chord under the "the watchfull eye of Masters & Juorneyman with broad knowledge of the NEC. " I don't doubt there are people who should hire an electrician to put a new plug end on a chord. I just doubt there are many who actually do. I'd even bet there are more people that hire a mechanic to change their oil.

 

Good point.


Some more good points.

 

I'm a Journeyman wireman, that must mean I didn't understand the thread starters question and how to make up a cord cap or NEC? Kind of like 75 year old houses that the builders never allowed for microwave, tv's puter's, hairdriers, compressors and welders in the electrical load demands and now the owners come up short on amps. Without him spending a ton of money I suggested a simple safe low cost idea to get by with for now. Done!
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