"If anyone can explain to me why my advice to only use one tool on the electircal circuit at a time is a violation of the NEC I'll apologize".

The implication is the circuit is not capable of safely meeting the demands of the available load and that "overcurrent protection" is provided by the user and not by a Properly Rated Installed Passive Device as required by Code.

It would be similar to plugging two 1,500 watt heaters into an 18 ga Dollar Store extension cord then rely on the user to make sure they only come on 1 at a time. The strategy will probably work for a while but sooner or later...

From a practical stand point it complicates using the equipment and minimizes the usefullness of all of those really cool "Big Boy Toys".

Would not be hard to see a scenario where you have to wait for the compressor to shut off before you can put the lift down, kind of steals the thunder when the guys are over and checking out your brand new $2,000 ++ lift and you say; Uuuhhh wait a minute we can't let it down yet.

For $20 worth of wire and a $10 breaker you could avoid the embarrassment.

As a side note though I have not looked up what the code (Local & NEC) requirements are to install a lift. I would be willing to bet a Franklin that a lift has to have its own dedicated branch circuit and the requirement would be based on User Safety and Not Electrical Safety,

Worst case; You become incapacitaed & intangled underneath the vehicle while it is on the lift at some position. EMT's respond to free you but they can't get the lift to operate to assist them in freeing you beacaue you have it unpluuged so the other tools can operate. To make matters worse the air compressor just blew a Start Capacitor and tripped the breaker so now they have to figure out what kinda a jury rig you have, which plug is it? Where is the breaker? & God forbid if it's a fuse, Mean while you are underneath this thing bleeding to death.

Contrary to popular belief Code is not a four letter word. It is there to help in preventing or in mitigating dangerous situations in general.

IT's a good thing to consult or consult someone who is familiar with it. Nobody knows it all cause it always changing. My personnal approach is I make my self aware of what the rules/limits are and never knowingly violate any more than one at any given time, yes you can get hurt doing that to but at least you know that you are pushing you luck.

Everybody knows about "Murphys Law" I've had days that made Murphy look like an optimist!!

By the way, there is no need for apologies for anything, we are only talking about stuff for the benefit of all. I think Electrical subjects come out sounding kind of harsh because of Code requirements and of Electricity's Unforgiving nature.

Mark J.

 

Your only dead once, it's the slow dying part that hurts, it will be over in a while.
.....=o&o>.....

 

I see we're on the same page here. Good "real life" example.

Good point! I know that many of the NFPA fire codes were developed in response to some catastrophic accident. They didn't just sit around and come up with stuff.

 

EXACTLY!!!
Not that many years ago Traffic Lights weren't put in until so many wrecks and fatalities occured. Fortunately today they are alot more pro-active.

As you probably know the NEC is a product of the NFPA, it is ever changing usually for the better, but here some trivia as late as 1968 the code accepted checking for voltage on circuits less than 480V by wetting (spit on) you fingers and quickly tapping or touching across the bus or wires!! How do you spell NUTS!!!!!!

 

[QUOTE]reverse contacts on a magnetic starter so his parts washer heater was energized when the mag starter wasn't. When the compressor cut in the mag starter energized disconnecting the parts washer heater and energized the compressor./QUOTE]
Beemer nut, what you wrote may make a lot of sense to someone knowledgeable about electrical components and I wish I understood so I could convert mine. Right now I plug and unplug machines which enables me to run multiple machines off the same circuit.

Just because some of us didn't respond to your answer doesn't imply that you didn't understand the question or that we missed your answer. Thanks for your input.

 

As far as the first starter thread with 220 "with one fuse", it's 220 (230/240 for others) with two 120 volt legs or circuits single phase with two fuses. I was stating a simple safe cheap way to get someone up and running for now to enjoy their hobby safely without a larger service change. A sub panel feed with 100 amps for the garage with 120 volts for plugs, lighting, tools and fridge plus 230 for compressor, welder, lift, would be ideal. Don't forget the electric 1,500 watt portable heater and stereo."This is power the wife says when she grabs her *****", oops sorry were talking amps. A 200 amp is minimum for a service these days, 150 amp is a waste as we hobby people need 100 amps for the garage alone. Hell my TIG machine will pull 131 amps and I only have 100 amp service, tell me about lack of power but that's another story as they say the cobblers kids go barefoot.
.....=o&o>.....

 

[QUOTE=tdford]If you are remotely intrested the drawing at the link below is one way it can be accomplished, notice it is a Pilot Duty using "2" M coils, 1 is the compressor starter, 2 is the contactor for the heater. Depending on the limits of the controller and the size of the heater the #2 M could possibly be dropped and the line would go directly to the heater.

Mom always said a picture is worth a thousand words.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/session.php?&formstate=editphoto&albumid=20144&pho toid=103083


Because some of you didn't respond did not mean the lack of exchange was not understood nor did it defend or refute the ideals considered within the post.

Look forward to seeing you folks around the boards. I do enjoy a spirited exchange on occassion.

As a late departed friend once told me; "Arguing with an Engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud after a while you figure out that the pig likes it..."

I may well resemble that remark from time to time.

 

For a real good and simple illustration of how 220 volts work as opposed to 110 volts. I think there is one on "howstuffworks.com but I might be wrong its been awhile since I've seen the site.

Ken

 

[QUOTE=smecomark1]
I like that one!!!! ...and to think I "retired" from engineering and became a High School Math Teacher......

Fran

 

previous statement
Using the wrong bolt or not torquing it to the correct value will not likely cause grievuos injury and what ever fails will just be a lesson for the future.
re-butt-all
Yes if will if it connects the wings to the fuselge or is the jesus nut hold your prop on!

 

You guys do make some good points. I'm not often offened by anything so dont worry. I did get it going wasnet a big deal. Bleeding the rams was the hardest part. The motor had 4 wires, 2 were for the limit switch which break the circut and the ground was made on the motor under the control box. As of now I'm currently 10 amps under the limit of the fuse. I know its not ideal but until I can pay to have somone come in do a run to a new circut it will work. So far there hasent been any issues when bolth the compressor and lift are in use.

A second question here before I start a new thread. Where exactly would I get ahold of those Chemical/Adhesive anchor bolts? A few on the bolts that came with the lift dident catch at the bottem of the hole so this adhesive bolt system would make me feel a tad safer. I did look on the web and found plenty of links to sites which turned into dead ends.

 

Try under Ramset/Red Head Anchors in Grainger's they have them, $2 to $3 each, from 3/8" up to 1". They have a glass like a cigar tube with seperated epoxy inside, drop in the hole then slam in and twist running thread or all thread to break and mix the epoxy.
Keep spare fuses out in the open within reach of the panel should you pop one or both, a safety thing. Good to hear your running for now but get it squared away in the future for everyones safety.
.....=o&o>.....

 

Glad to hear you got your lift installed and running. Sounds like a great toy, er I mean, piece of equipment.



We have always ordered our chem anchors directly from Hilti. We use the adhesive that comes in the two part tube that is used in what looks like a big caulking gun. You can find them on eBay pretty regularly for a lot less than buying them new. Search on Hilti HIT HY150. They also have the cartridges like Beemer Nut described. Both good systems. I haven't had any personal experience with the Red Head system.

 

Google in WhiteCap Industries, Inc. That's a construction / industrial supply company nation wide. They have a section on the left page for different types of anchors and epoxy for the correct anchors.
If you use Hiliti's two tube epoxy you'll have to buy their gun, more money on a use it once item.
.....=o&o>.....

 

You're right about the gun. They're expensive from Hilti, around $90 last time I checked. I've seen a lot of them on eBay for $20 though.