hello i have a question, i just purchased a used equipment trailer. 7000 GVWR, it has the safety chains bolted on with one bolt per chain. the chains are grade 43 which i understand to be appropriate for this trailer, the bolts are 3/8" grade 7. is this acceptable? i know a little about chains and bolt grades and it seems to me that the chain should break before the bolt would shear. and opinions???? thanks.

 

Don't tell anyone I said this but I personally feel that a pop rivit is accetable because if that trailor breaks loose of the ball, I dont' want the dang thing still hooked to me either. I've seen it happen on two instances, one with a camper and another with a horse trailor and both resulted in the truck and trailor both in the ditch and rolled over. I know the chains are for safety to others on the road but whats more dangerous, a trailor coming off, sliding into the ditch and flipping over (with very little chance of it making it to opposed traffic on a divided hwy) or a Truck and a Trailor swing all over the place for an extra 1000ft while the driver is trying to regain control and still losing it into the ditch. Know youve endangered yourself and everyone else on the road. Also chances of making it into on coming traffic on a divided hwy is also greater with both still attatched. I know whats legal, this is just my opinion that others don't nessessarly share with me so take it with a grain of salt.

 

I don't believe this. I had rather see you and your truck in the ditch turned over than to see your breakaway trailer shoved through the windshield of an oncoming suv resting on the dead bodies of it's passengers.

I'm sorry dude, but wrong answer. You are by law responsiable for controling your load and or tow.

John

 

Dittos on what jowilker said. No need for a trailer to be slingshotted off a truck at 70mph.

Jason

 

Niether of you guys have seen a trailor come unhooked at 70mph and have the saftey chains catch it!!! I HAVE, no it didn't happen to me (other than a 2 place snomobile trailor) but both times I was following. Also neither of you had to go see if you had two dead friends because the after the chains caught that 10k lb horse trailor (loaded with lumber, thank god) it jerk the truck so hard there is no way to control it but since you try your damdest all you do swerve violently for 1000ft before rolling it into the ditch!!! Good luck but untill you've seen it first hand don't critisise me!! The travel trialor that went over was twice as violent as the horse trailor and actually rolled on to its side before the truck, leaving the truck along for the ride jack knifed going sideways into the ditch before tearing away and rolling over. and JFYI the horse trailor and truck managed to cross the median enter on coming traffic and landed in the opposite ditch of travel!! That would have never happend had the trailor just broke free, it would of just dropped on the skids untill reaching the ditch were they would have dug in and the trailor would have rolled and never crossing the ditch.

Also I hook my stuff up correctly because I have to, I also said take it with a grain of salt because this is just MY OPINION after seeing what happens when the saftey chains actually hold.

 

SLE -

In both of your examples, I take it the breakaway system for the brakes didn't work?

Steve

 

> the bolts are 3/8" grade 7. is this acceptable

Grade 5 and 8 are common grades. What size is the chain, 5/16 or 3/8? Assuming Grade 8 bolt and 3/8 #43 chain, the bolt might break before the chain. Why? The chain would deform, but, the bolt would snap because because it is brittle compared to the chain and most of the strength is on the outside. Bolts are designed for compression, not shear.

That being said, it is an acceptable size for the job. You are not going to subject the bolt to enough force to snap it with a hitch coming off the ball, especially if it is torqued down correctly.

> Niether of you guys have seen a trailor come unhooked at 70mph

Hopefully I never will because I would not be following someone driving that fast with a trailer. I would let them drive on to their own destruction with me far behind.

imo, Better the people towing at 70 mph (like that is prudent with a trailer designed for horses loaded with wood instead) get killed from a roll over then an innocent person coming the other way.

When someone hooks up a trailer, they are responsible for everything, not the van full of nuns coming the other direction. The buck stops there with the trailer driver. Just like it stops there with a professional tractor trailer driver. The chains are meant to keep the problem isolated to the vehicle responsible for the load, the chains worked like they were suppose to.

Plus, the chains worked great! The combo traveled 1000 feet and when the accident happened they were probably no longer going 70 mph and had to slow to at least a more reasonable 55 mph. If they had been going 60 mph that would have given them 11 seconds to slow down! More then enough time to downshift and slow down, without braking, to 35 mph or less.

Requiring chains and break-a-away brakes on any trailer over 1500 pounds is all good in my opinion.

 

Again since you haven't seen this happen please don't lecture me. The horse trailor had no breakaway system and even though the camper did have you ever pulled your ebrake at 70, I haven't but I know what it does at 20mpg (fun days in an icy parking lot) I'm pretty sure thats why the camper whipped violantly compared to horse trailor.

First, just because the horse trailor was loaded with lumber do not imply that the lumber was the cause of the accident. The lumber was loaded on the floor, 3-4k max weight of material, stationary unlike animals, in a trailor designed to haul 6 head of cattle. Last time a check a good size heffer was near 1800lbs so thats a trailor designed to haul nearly 11k lbs (probably rated for 13-15k) of nonridgid material (cattle) that can shift there weight at any point and this trailor had 3-4k of material loaded on the floor, obviously not moving, and your trying to tell me we were using the trailor improperly, get real!!!

Second towing a trailor at 70 is not uncommon or all that dangerous, had they been going 60 it would have still happened. Between campers, boats, dump trailors, car trailors, the occastional stock trailor I've towed a variety of loads, on a variety of trailors, and have only felt unstable and unsafe less than a handfull of times where 70mph was inappropriate on a 75mph interstate! my camper and boat tied together is one instance that I keep my speed in that 60-65 range, 70ft of crap going down the hwy with 2 pivot points tend to get squirly in wind gusts and downhill grades w/ curves. Also everybodys ability is different I don't question the ability of either if the drivers of the two rigs that had accidents, one is a truck driver (ther one towing the camper) and the other a 50 year old farmer thats been towing stuff since he could reach the pedals.

In both instances the reason for the accident was not of the drivers fault, the first was a clear cut cupler failor where the tensioner had cracked and slipped over the ball. The second was due to the reciever pin either being pull at one of our stops or falling out as we had drivin over 800 miles without unhooking it and had the hitch came right out of the reciever!!

Stuff happens and both would have happen irrigarudless of a speed difference of 60 or 70mph. Yeh the chains did there job and held, thats what caused the horse trailor to swing out of control for over 1000'!! Once it broke loose hit the end of the chain and swung into the back of the truck with 6-8k pounds of force (trailor + material) guess what happens?? It shoves the truck sideways and there begins the death sway which by the way anytime you have a swaying trailor the worst thing you can do is hit the brakes. no matter what he did he was bound to crash. so is it better to have a trailor swing violently for 1000ft taking up two lanes pushing the truck where ever it pleases at which point your gonna end up in a ditch fliped over anyway or to have the trailor come unhooked, drop on the skids untill they dig in and flip over and all be done less than half the area it took the truck and trailor together to come to a rest. I've made my decision you make yours.

The camper wasn't much different expect once the brakes locked and it hit the end of the chains it swung around, flipped on its side, jack knifed the truck (lifted the rear wheels right off the ground) and shoved the truck into the ditch sideways so that it also filpped over.

When it was all said and done between the two accident you had $200k worth of scrap metal laying in a ditch with 4 peoples lives at stake and what did those safety chains accomplish, nothing more than $80k worth of pickups that wouldn't have other wise been totaled and 4 peoples lives that wouldn't have been endangered. Lucky no body was seriously injured in either other than some cuts, scrapes bruises and a little glass in the eye but all in all everyone walked way unscathed no thanks to the chains.

This is my point and my OPINION after seeing this happen. I've said it twice, take it with a grain of salt, do as you please but don't lecture me about towing and saftey chains, I've seen it, and you haven't so untill the day comes when you have to check and see if everyone is alright after a horrific wreck I won't be taking any lecturing for others that have no experience!

 

Fortunately, in all my years I've never seen such catastrophies as described, although I once lost a 7-bag cement mixer at 60 mph....my fault and no fun, but it didn't result in loss of control of the 1/2 ton pickup or significant damage to anything other than the mixer and my nerves. So, I can't comment on the realities of a coupling failure with respect to heavy trailers.

However, I can comment on the theories that apply to proper safety equipment and the projected consequences of a coupling failure with respect to auto/pickup and heavier trailer combinations. They are seldom spoken about and I see evidence every day that too many drivers are ignorant of them. Theoretically, if these practices are applied and adhered to, they will come as close as possible to eliminating the situations written above.

Safety chains: In addition to proper grade and secure attachment, they should be no longer than necessary to permit turning and should always be crossed. The often overlooked purpose of crossing the safety chains is it functions to cradle the tongue in a failure, preventing contact with the road surface (pole-vaulting); and to keep the tongue pointed straight ahead and in line with the tow vehicle.

Breakaway switch: Cable length should be significantly shorter than the chains to permit activation of the brakes before full extension of the chains; ideally, to dampen the effect of chain extension. It's also critical that the switch is allowed to pivot and not cranked down tight to the tongue so that the plunger will stay in alignment with the cable. They're normally plastic and can shear under lateral force rather than activate the trailer brakes.

Should failure occur while proceeding straight forward at a reasonable and safe speed, the trailer brakes are up to snuff, the vehicles are on dry pavement, the above procedures are followed, and all the planets are in perfect alignment, etc.....theoretically, one stands an excellent chance of not ending upside down in the ditch. Any deviation from the above and your chances lessen.

Crap's gonna happen, regardless. Principles, standard methods and practices have long been established to make towing as safe as possible, and it's up to us to follow them. These are two very important items that are often disregarded.

Good luck, good safe hauling, and Happy Holidays.

 

Sure hope I don't meet you or your careless friends on the road! Part of the responsibilities of towing is to maintain and carefully inspect the equipment as well as towing at a reasonable speed. Being in a farming community and from a farming family, I learned long ago to steer clear of a farmer towing anything. (baling twine and wire will hold anything, won't it?)

 

You need to be lectured!!! Your grain of salt ideas are totally wrong...These examples that you are basing your opinions on didn't have to happen. You statement that the horse trailer "got to the end of the chain" indicates the obvious...the chains where not connected to the tow vehicle correctly. They had too much slack and the chains should have been crossed under the tongue so that the trailer would have been craddled. The tow vehicle would have still been in control and been able to stop the trailer without it whipping. Probably too light on the tongue in the first place.

So you've seen it...big deal! What you saw was the result of poor judgement, improper hook-up, and a failure to pretrip the equipment. This is what you've based your opinion on and now you're posting that opinion here in the belief that the older, wiser, and more experienced will buy it...NOT!

I lost a trailer once long before you were even born. It came unhitched after hitting a bad section of the interstate. I had a '74 F-250 pulling a 25' boat for the dealer I worked for and it dropped on the chains and didn't even hit the road. I had no problem stopping from 65mph and getting off the road.

A common misconception is that the chains have to be loose so they won't bind while turning. That's why you see chains with a lot of slack and dragging on the road and. They are worthless like this and will do just as you say if the trailer becomes uncoupled.

Now you have received a lecture by someone with more experienced than you could possibly have in the 9 years that you could legally drive. Young drivers like you scare me because you don't understand the correct way to do things and then form biased opinions and methods of dealing with the outcome. You also think that your way is better than that of the law makers that require chains. You're pretty arrogant and a hazard to all who share the road with you. Come back in another 25 years and we'll see if you have wised up a little.

Dorf,
(38 years of experience and qualified to lecture.)

 

Question,

If the tongue is down on the ball, and the latch is pushed down, does anybody slide a pin thru that little hole to keep the tongue latch down?

If that was done, how could a trailer break loose other than mechanical failure of the tongue or hitch receiver/parts?

I actually put a lock thru the hole on that latch, twist my chains until they are just hanging a inch or two below the tongue, hook up the break away, not even sure how that works to be honest, lights and brakes, then go.

I'm putting brakes on my personal truck because I've justed started towing with it, but on my Sister's Dod** and my friends Ford's we are always super careful of hookups. Pulling on them, pushing them back and forth to make sure the tongue is seated on the ball well. Double check the electrics. Almost every time we go out with a trailer, we do a check of lights working.

I never got "learned" how to really proper tow, just watched my Dad doing hookups and driving technique, just seems like common sense to me. And if you're pulling a big load, at 65-70 or more, then you should get your *** beat. Just cause your rig rolls out with a heavy trailer doesn't mean you need to run hard and fast. It's just stupid. Period.

 

001-F-DORF, I know for fact that the camper had them crossed in order to provide a "cradle", Whats your explanation on that one?? The horse trailor I don't know if they were crossed or not, I didn't hook it up and I didn't inspect it, it wasn't me driving and it wasn't my trailor. As far as the equipment, whens that last time you put your head under the hitch of a trailor your about to tow and look at the coupler that holds the ball tight?? I've looked at a few (only because I've had to adjust a coupler or the occasional one that has to be pryed down because the trailor was set down on it with it in the "nonreleased" position) but most of the time I and everyone that I have ever watched just reach under with your hand and make sure there isn't abunch of slack between coupler tensioner and the ball. As far as the reciever coming out, it came out after 100 miles from the last stop (which was for a burger and gas). And you think it was our failor to properly inspect the equiptment. We towed it over 800 miles in two days and then it happend, when it was hooked up the saftey pin was in!!! If it wasn't we wouldn't have made it 10 miles moreless 800 or even 100 from the last stop!!

Just because your older makes you better at everything, yeh right. This is suppose to be technical so dont be making asumptions about my experience or abitliy when you don't know me or my back ground. If your bright enough to look up my age maybe you should look at my gallery and see the stuff I tow on a VERY regular basis!! I have an F250 V10 for a reason and its not to haul my wife to the movies or go grocery shopping, thats what my two cars are for! This isn't about me, this about saftey chains and I expressed my again "OPINION" and everybody jumps up and down and throughs a hissy fit. Spare me the humor, I seen it happen and even if we didn't lock the trailor coupler, hook up the lights, brakes or anything but the saftey chains, IT DOESN"T MATTER, as this is what the saftey chains did when they caught the trailor regaurdless of how the rest of the trailor was hooked up or why it came unhooked!!!

I can also asure you that neither tounge hit the road because to much slack was in the chains, don't asume if you don't know!! The chains on the camper hardy even reached the slotts without struggling to get the hook throught the reciever, I vivdly remeber hooking that up because I thought we were gonna have to go get longer chains but onces they were hooked there was just enough slack to make corners. You think I'm Biased, Dang right I'm biased after have to go see If I still have good friends!! I think you would be too!

Lastly, I never said anything about me NOT HOOKING UP CHAINS, I simply said I don't like them, I never said I don't use them. Yes, its law, so are the brakes on my camper, the lights, the saftey chains between the camper/truck and boat/camper and I can asure you that they are always hooked up. Every thing I've tow has be been completly leagal short of the father inlaws haywagon, and a buddys boat that the lights didn't work on. I again only said I DON"T LIKE THEM, not that I DON"T USE THEM!!!

78Bigunns, Every trailor I tow has a pin throught the trailor latch, I won't tow anything with out. The only way a trailor will break loose if you have it properly attached it is a mechanical failor or a complete loss of control, excessive sway to the point at which it will twist the hitch right off or maybe getting hit by another vehicle.

As far as towing at 70mph, theres nothing wrong as long as you have the proper setup and enough vehicle for the job, ie... have enough weight and braking capability. This again is not about me, but JFYI as I said before most everything I HAVE is not that large or heavy. My boat camper truck all together weigh in right around 17k and thats about the heaviest thing I tow, that also includes my truck that weighs in a 7100 lbs. The skidsteer dumptrailor is probably a close second at about 6K-8k. And as I stated before I only run 60-65 with that setup not 70-75 (boat/camper/truck). The dumper trailor I'll run 65-70mph with but its a whole lot more stable, the mass is fairly low as far as CG, and the wind has very little effect on it. The dump trailor is rated for 14k, but since its a whole lot more than my truck is rated for its only been loaded like that when I hooked it to the dually.

I'm done ranting but for the 800th time this is MY EXPERIANCE and MY OPINION take it with a grain of salt. If you don't agree, fine, but don't shoot personal remarks back at me when this is supposed to be technical and about the saftey chains and the proper bolt/grade to hold it in the unfortunate experiance of a trailor coming unhooked!

 

Point taken. I'm new to towing, but I've always felt the higher the speed regardless of setup is just dangerous. Bigger mass means bigger stopping distance and timeframe of stop from the moment you put your foot to the brake pedal. I probably am over cautious when towing, but have found running along at 65-70 (Yea I've done it too), doesn't really get you there that much quicker, burns more fuel, and taxes your equipment more. One of the main reasons I slowed down when pulling was for fuel reasons, try to get every drop of diesel I could out of my Dad's truck. But thats us, to each his own. You said you check your gear every time you pull, sounds good to me. I still have alot to learn in this arena.......

 

chadsalt, welcome to FTE and thanks for joining us in the Towing forum!

Very good discussion guys. Let's make sure we leave each other a little wiggle room while discussing opinion. Any reference to legal requirement is great. I always appreciate that.