When you have a moment could you check out this thread: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...=415475&page=3 and tell me if BigF350's recommendation can do the trick? (Read from his post up.)

Will his suggestion provide me the latitude I need; allow ME to do the modifications I require, and is available THROUGH MOTORHAVEN?

(Considering I can't think of a single thing I would like for Christmas, this could do the trick.)

 

Can you ask what it is you specifically want it to do? There are three pages of posts there! I see his final recommendation, an SCT Xcal2 programmer, and we can certainly supply that. Depending on the level of control you need (basic fuel trims, limiters, etc.) the XCal2 and standard software will do it. If you want full control, we can get you the SCT Pro Racer Package, which gives you everything you can possibly image for tuning. One warning though, with that level of control the learning curve and complexity goes way up.

 

Ah, I did get a response. I thought Ken would be otherwise disposed.

Specifically, I'd like to control EGR. When it closes. (Be able to control duty cycle depending on PCM inputs.) As you said, “there's three pages of posts” and I could be much more specific if you desire.

In all honesty more control is better, so the Pro Racer Package is probably the better choice. I'm sure you have a lot of people who claim to know what they need to, to use such an application/programmer; I'll tell you I don't have it, but will get it.

Perhaps you can point me in the direction of some written material that describes the product or I can tell you what I desire:

I would like to be able to manipulate any of the engine management functions yet I desire to retain all of the factory PCM functionality that controls all of the other aspects of the vehicle (not motor). An absolute need I have is that I'd like to be able to restore the stock programming at any point, should I not like the results of my experimentation.

So you see, a stand-alone engine management computer is out of the question. A Tweecer was an option suggested by someone else and it appeared an attractive option, but there was not one available for my PCM (DZU3).

Quite frankly I'd like to have all of the available hardware, knowledge, and experience that you guys have to produce some chip programming of my own for my own use. I just don't have the patience to go through the dyno, burn, test, dyno, burn, test and would be much happier having made a significant investment so I can tune on my own terms. Sadly, this knowledge is not readily available so taking this direction puts me on the right track at least.

Let me know what you guys can do.

 

Ken's availability is spotty right now. Sometimes it's him behind this user id, sometimes its not. His wife is pregnant they have it tomorrow csection so he is going to be working from home for a while. He has all his tuning hardware and software at home. He is a couple of miles away so he can bring items to ship at the end of the day.

No, you can't control EGR directly, unless you get the Pro Racer Package. It allows fine control over it, or even shutting it off completely.

A description of the Pro Racer Package:
--------------------------------------------------------------
A single PCM package that gives the hardcore racer the control he has been dying to have. SCT Ford Tuning Software gives you COMPLETE control of the PCM for all your tuning needs:
• Tune like the pro's and eliminate the guess work with a system that has been field tested and proven to work.
• Built in help files, with the ability to document your changes.
• Easy to use, windows based program.
• Support for most Ford ECM's (4000+)
• Now available in two versions! Burn your tune to a 4 position chip that plugs into the PCM or flash the computer through the diagnostic port with the PCM Flasher.

Calibration features:
Four Bank tuning, the ultimate control
• Firm Shifts (Automatic)
• Elimination of Speed Limiters, Torque Retards, Timing Retards
• Speedometer Correction
• Full control over the EEC
• Multiple Program Design, allows YOU to select your level of power.
• Programs designed by the experts at SCT, for YOUR vehicle.
• Optional built in TWO STEP LAUNCH LIMITER
--------------------------------------------------------------

Tweecer, while good, is limited not only in its applications but also its usuability/features.

Plus, you can datalog with the Xcal2 which helps quite a bit with tuning. Remember though, this is called Pro Racer for a reason. Its not there with the assumption that its going to teach you tuning 101. There is a special support forum on SCT's site for the Pro Racer package, but there's also no substitute for puting time in on the software and your truck.

 

^All well and good.

Four questions:

1. "Support for most Ford ECM's (4000+)" How about mine? DZU3, or if you are willing to accept a return no questions asked, then this becomes a non-issue.
2."Programs designed by the experts at SCT, for YOUR vehicle." All the programs I have ever had have been designed by experts for my vehicle (and I still don’t have what I desire). Mind you, this is not saying that their capabilities are short; they just don’t have enough time to devote when doing it for a profit. Are we certain that I am able to manipulate ALL engine parameters based on sensor inputs? Put it this way, if I can achieve what I desire because of my own ignorance or inability, I'd never ask for a refund partial or not. However, if there is something I cannot achieve because "it's not accounted for in the product and we're not going to come out and be forthcoming about it in our marketing materials" then I'm going to want my money back because I'm not getting the value I desire out of the product. I suppose here’s another question: is there anything I cannot do with this product that you can do at MotorHaven and if so what?
3. How much?
4. How long?

It seems I'm interested in the one where I can tune to a four position chip; I'm thinking that's the option, correct me if I am wrong. If I take this option am I somehow unable to flash through the diagnostic port?

On one hand if you guys are willing to cut me some slack and try this thing out then I only need to know how you need me to arrange for purchase. On the other hand, if it is a 'buyer beware' situation, let me know how much it costs and get me hooked up on SCT's forum and I can do my research.

Hopefully this is not asking too much.

 

1. Yes, it supports DZU3. There are hundreds of parameters available for this code that you can change.
2. We can supply a tune that will give you a good start, which you can then use to make the changes you design, such as the EGR flow rates. The Pro Racer package means you'll be the one doing the additional changes yourself. You can do anything with the package we can do with a chip/tuner locally. We can't guarantee you'll be competant tuning and can't give money back for software. Whatever the vehicle is capable of achieving, this product can do it. Its up to you with the package to change the correct values to do what you want. We can only guarantee that it will allow you to make all the hundreds of changes that the dealers can make. SCT has a support forum specifically for tuning questions, and advanced training course available if you're willing to pay for them and fly to Florida. Its sort of like buying Microsoft's .NET developer package... they supply the advanced network programming interface and its up to you to learn to program.
3. First, you must buy either an SCT tuner (Xcal2) or SCT chip. The Pro Racer tuning software is another $299.
4. We can have it to you in less than a week.

No, the software is not available as try before you buy. SCT doesn't let us return this. Think about it this way: if you could return it you could create your tunes, load them on your chip/tuner and then return the software and keep the tuner/chip. Only the tuner/chip is returnable.

 

^Ok, fair enough. Its funny you should bring up .NET; given that it is the basis for my income. Having gone through the learning process of a new development environment every few years in the past 24 years is what gives me the confidence that I am capable. (I do appreciate your statement of competency.) We'll see in a year or so.

I hate to beat a dead (at least dying) horse but I continue to zero in on my understanding:

For $299 (for the software) I’m willing to take the risk. Just the attempt at the learning experience and being able to peer inside is worth that price.

You say I must purchase either a chip or a tuner first. That confuses me just a bit. So let me give you my understanding and you can tell me where it is wrong.

You see, no matter how inaccurate, I have a vision of what I expect: my laptop running some application (Pro Racer software) that can download, modify, and upload programming from/to the PCM. If this is the case then I do not understand what purpose the tuner (XCal2) serves; however, I can see where having a multi-position chip could be of some benefit. (I could load it with one or more tunes and not have to flash the PCM). Given that I desire a ‘bail-out’ option during my learning phase, perhaps this is the best option.

I imagine a ‘tuner’ as a device that connects to the diagnostic port and let’s me view and/or change parameters such as injector pulse width or spark advance. (I’m piecing information together here.) If I had a tuner (XCal2) what purpose does the Pro Racer tuning software serve? If I can change parameters (of an existing tune) with a tuner what does the software do? Allow me to change more parameters that I otherwise would with just the XCal2? I may have read/heard that tuners contain a finite (or perhaps preprogrammed) number of tunes and the tuner simply serves as a device to download the stock programming for later restoration and upload a given tune to the PCM. Is this more or less accurate?

If I buy a chip, I’m gathering that I would get the 4 bank model where you would load bank 1 with a given ‘tune’ and then I could use banks 2-4 to contain my adaptations of your tune (with position 5 stock, do I understand this correctly?). In this case what does the Pro Racer tuning software serve? Does it connect to the chip whereby chip programming is downloaded, perhaps modified by the Pro Racer software, and then uploaded into one of the remaining positions on the chip?

Perhaps the best question to ask you is what function/purpose do the three components (Tuner, Chip, and Pro Racer software, and my laptop I guess) serve, how do they interact, connect to one another (and the PCM), etc.

I assume the Pro Racer software runs on my laptop. Does my laptop then connect to the chip (or tuner) to download/modify a tune? I’m guessing if this is the case then the laptop (Pro Racer software) is NOT capable of downloading the [stock or currently flashed] programming in the PCM nor is it capable of flashing a program (tune) to the PCM. Is this assumption correct and is this the reason for the chip requirement (with your initial tune) or the XCal2 requirement?

I’m getting the feeling here that I can’t just download the stock programming and begin poking around with it. No offense, but I feel this is a better starting point for my investigations then trying to determine what is different with your tune from what the stock programming does. (But then again that may be ignorance speaking. I just can’t see how you guys would give me a ‘close’ tune without driving down there and putting it on a dyno with a wideband.)

Another just blatant question is in your opinion, which do I want XCal2, Chip, or both?

If I go with the chip and the Pro Racer software does the chip have to be out of the vehicle to work with? Perhaps this is the advantage of the XCal2 as it is easily connected/disconnected from the vehicle.

Sorry to ask so many questions, perhaps a phone call is in order.

One last question (in this post at least). So let’s say I go ahead and buy this (something). What if I want to tinker with the programming on my 2K3 Cobra, my GT, or the GT500 I will hopefully get next summer? Is there something else to buy? Another chip, another tuner, what’s the scoop?

 

The software is the same software we use to program SCT Xcals, Xcal2s and chips. It creates the tune files. You still need a way to deliver the tune to the vehicle. You do this by plugging your chip or tuner into the interface card the software comes with, program it and then install it into the vehicle.

Less accurate. A "tuner" is really just a flash programmer that lets you make very basic changes to the tune file. For true custom programming you need the tuning software, which loads the tunes you create into the tuning hardware.

The chip has 6 settings:

1: Off - stock
2 - 5: Tunes you load onto it
6: kill switch function, prevents the vehicle from starting

We won't program the chip at all you'd do that.

Answered above.

Running it on a laptop isn't needed, because the laptop doesn't interface to the PCM, unless you've opted to use an XCal2 instead of a chip. If you go with an XCal2 you can plug the XCal2 into the PCM, and then via a USB cable plug the XCal2 into your PC and datalog, a laptop would be useful then.

You can't download stock programs with it, but it does come with a stock program on disk.

When purchasing the tuner, if you give me a list of what changes have been made to the vehicle I'd write a custom tune for it. You can then use the compare functions of the software to see the changes I made, so you can can get an idea of what I've done and make changes as you see fit. Or you can start from scratch if you want.

If you want datalogging, XCal2.

The chip has to be removed from the vehicle any time you want to reprogram the chip with newer tunes.

My 20 years of software development has shown me that developers tend to over-analyze things. You're making this way too complicated. Its really as simple as tuning software, and tuner or chip to load the tunes into.

I'm not available on the phone, not for 3 weeks. Working from home, wife just had a baby on Wednesday. I've got my tuning software here at home and will be doing tunes from here. I'm handling support via email when Jason, Larry or John can't handle it. Any one of us may use this MotorHaven Guy handle on the forums. I'm taking care of my customers by family has to come first.

Another tuner (or chip), and an additional license.

 

Ha, ha, ha ha! LOL, OMG, you just earned a friend for life with that one. It’s so true isn’t it? Oh well, that’s me.

Ok. It looks like I need a chip and the Pro Racer software as I have the AutoTap application to do data logging. It might be a pain to pull the chip out to flash it but I think I would rather have a five position chip that I could switch on the fly as opposed to being able to ‘have’ only one tune at a time and need to flash to install/restore.

One last question, is it more economical for me to get an ‘unlimited’ license (if it is available) or to purchase a separate license/chip for each additional vehicle I want to do?

So, I think I have all my questions answered. How do I order and what specific information do you need from me to place the order and develop the initial tune?

P.S. Ken, congratulations on your new arrival.
P.P.S. Ken, John, Larry, Jason no rush on this, nothing good comes quickly or cheaply, take care of your ‘good’ customers first.

 

Oh yea one more thing, can I send you my KB chip and will you pull the tune off of it?

 

I could do it but all you'll have is a binary dump not useful with SCT's Pro Racer package (it doesn't use raw dumps). Don't let the software worry you, while you need to know how your vehicle works, the software is very good and with some time you'll get the hang of it.

I'll be in the office for about 15 minutes this morning, I'll let Jason/Larry know you're calling and will notify them about the pending order (this isn't something sold via the web site, we want to make sure customers know what it is they are buying). 770-736-7122 is the number, extension 105. Once they get it, I'll take over from the home office and will get your base tunes set up. I'll run them a little on the rich side for safety, then tweak them after you data log.

 

I would also recommend you get the XCal2 and not the chip. The datalogging provided by the XCal2 is MUCH MUCH faster than the AutoTAP. Once you get the Pro Racer package, be sure to register on the sctflash.com forums for support!

Regards,

 

I didn't get a chance to read this until now; I'll be able to call in the morning (tomorrow).

Oh crap, and I was all set on the chip. But hey. Yes, the AT is dismal on data collection, but I also have free access to a WDS. I really don't think I'd be happy with the XCal alone; if I understand it correctly I have to flash a tune as opposed to the 'instant' switching inherent in the chip. I’d probably be happy with both (if economically reasonable), but if the WDS gives me the data collection speed I need for those particular situations I think I’ll just stay with the chip. Is my understanding sound here?

As far as data logging and speed is concerned I'm guessing the only parameters of concern are timing and injector pulse width during a spool-up. (There is no capability for wideband O2 with the XCal is there?) And while I'm at it, do you guys have any suggestions with respect to A/F measurement? My plan otherwise is to head off to the dyno guys that have better equipment than I can reasonably afford.

 

The biggest benefit of the chip is the ability to switch programs on the fly, however the XCalibrator 2 flashes pretty rapidly. The WDS is definately better than the AutoTAP, however it is not any faster than the XCalibrator 2. To my knowledge, there is no other products that datalog as fast as the XCal2.

There are a few more important parameters that should be datalogged, besides the one you mentioned. Short and Long term fuel trims, coolant temp, air inlet temp, knock sensor (if vehicle is equiped), throttle position, load, maf counts / volts, injector duty cycle, etc.

The XCal2 can have 4 analog inputs, I use an Innovate LM-1 wideband on my own 2003 Cobra. With this setup, there is no real need for a dyno other than to see power increases.

 

Sorry guys, more research, as Ken said, I'm overthinking it.

I just didn't want you to think I had forgot about you.