replacing idi with 7.3 powerstroke
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Originally Posted by BigF350
That is completely incorrect in more ways than one.
Does an I6 BMW M3 have more lower rpm torque than a V8 F150?
A vehicles torque curve is completley independant of its configuration. Read my response in another thread.
2nd. You are predominately using the higher rpms when towing. An average diesel pickups rpms will be around 1900-2300 (this is an average of where the
engine will be spending most its time, depending on gearing of course). The Powerstrokes (and the IDI's) torque is the strongest in this range, where the majority of us use it.
If you want to start shunting rail carriages the Powerstroke (or the IDI) may not be as suitable, but for (the far more likely scenario of) towing a 10k lb trailer up a grade it is ideal.
First I will assume that the 100,000,000 is a typing error, as I don't know of any engine that will last that long (maybe a Yanmar diesel ticking at less than 500rpms)
I think thier are a few guys on here that have got some serious miles on thier PSD's - I can't remember how many though, but if it isn't 1million, its darn close.
Mine left my ownership with 140,000 of the hardest miles imaginable. It towed a 10k cattle trailer at 80-90mph (WOT) on mostly unsealed roads in 100+ heat. It didn't have an engine issue at all.
Anywhy its merely academic, as the odds on any of us (well me anyway) having a vehicle whose engine that lasts 1million miles is pretty remote. I work my trucks far to hard for that.
Apart from the head studs - which admittedly has caused a couple of stock 6.0l's to puke coolant, there is one reason why the Cummins internals are beefier. They NEED to be.
Navistars engineers aren't idiots, and if an engine needs to have 7 main bearings, they would use 7 main bearings. Thing is it doesn't - you may see this as a negative, I see it as a positive.
There are some of the users in here which place far more load on the engine internals than Navistars engineers could have ever envisaged, yet failures are VERY rare.
Have you checked his gallery????
If there is a person on this planet that abuses thier truck. Mr Sponaugle would have to be writing an acceptance speech...
Honestly I couldn't care what you drive.
BUT, you must understand this is a Ford Enthusiasts site, and posting in a thread where someone enquired about how to go about replacing thier Ford engine with another Ford engine, and you suggest that he should use an engine from an entirely different manufacturer, as if it is the only engine that has ever existed you are going to encounter resistance.
You must understand the majority of us here have had nothing short of great experiences with our Ford trucks, and we will continue to do so irrespective of what you drive.
Some of us may agree that the Cummins has a good reliability reputation - me included - however I will never own one (irrespective of the fact that Dodge don't sell them here), purely because it will never suit what I am after in a diesel pickup (nor will it suit what the majority of the other FTE users here are after).
In summation:
I don't drive a Dodge, I don't have any desire too, if you have had good experiences with Dodges, or know people who have, great, it doesn't mean we all have to be driving a Ram.
After all this, I do sincerly apologise to the person who initiated this thread for hijacking it.
Does an I6 BMW M3 have more lower rpm torque than a V8 F150?
A vehicles torque curve is completley independant of its configuration. Read my response in another thread.
2nd. You are predominately using the higher rpms when towing. An average diesel pickups rpms will be around 1900-2300 (this is an average of where the
engine will be spending most its time, depending on gearing of course). The Powerstrokes (and the IDI's) torque is the strongest in this range, where the majority of us use it.
If you want to start shunting rail carriages the Powerstroke (or the IDI) may not be as suitable, but for (the far more likely scenario of) towing a 10k lb trailer up a grade it is ideal.
First I will assume that the 100,000,000 is a typing error, as I don't know of any engine that will last that long (maybe a Yanmar diesel ticking at less than 500rpms)
I think thier are a few guys on here that have got some serious miles on thier PSD's - I can't remember how many though, but if it isn't 1million, its darn close.
Mine left my ownership with 140,000 of the hardest miles imaginable. It towed a 10k cattle trailer at 80-90mph (WOT) on mostly unsealed roads in 100+ heat. It didn't have an engine issue at all.
Anywhy its merely academic, as the odds on any of us (well me anyway) having a vehicle whose engine that lasts 1million miles is pretty remote. I work my trucks far to hard for that.
Apart from the head studs - which admittedly has caused a couple of stock 6.0l's to puke coolant, there is one reason why the Cummins internals are beefier. They NEED to be.
Navistars engineers aren't idiots, and if an engine needs to have 7 main bearings, they would use 7 main bearings. Thing is it doesn't - you may see this as a negative, I see it as a positive.
There are some of the users in here which place far more load on the engine internals than Navistars engineers could have ever envisaged, yet failures are VERY rare.
Have you checked his gallery????If there is a person on this planet that abuses thier truck. Mr Sponaugle would have to be writing an acceptance speech...
Honestly I couldn't care what you drive.
BUT, you must understand this is a Ford Enthusiasts site, and posting in a thread where someone enquired about how to go about replacing thier Ford engine with another Ford engine, and you suggest that he should use an engine from an entirely different manufacturer, as if it is the only engine that has ever existed you are going to encounter resistance.
You must understand the majority of us here have had nothing short of great experiences with our Ford trucks, and we will continue to do so irrespective of what you drive.
Some of us may agree that the Cummins has a good reliability reputation - me included - however I will never own one (irrespective of the fact that Dodge don't sell them here), purely because it will never suit what I am after in a diesel pickup (nor will it suit what the majority of the other FTE users here are after).
In summation:
I don't drive a Dodge, I don't have any desire too, if you have had good experiences with Dodges, or know people who have, great, it doesn't mean we all have to be driving a Ram.
After all this, I do sincerly apologise to the person who initiated this thread for hijacking it.
as for pullin hills. you pull the hills w/ high rpm because thats where a v8 makes power while im pulling the hills at a much lower rpm where my inline is making power. i spend most of my time around 1500 rpm
as for beefier internals cummins isn't beefier becasue the have to be but beacue they can be. how many psds are over 800 rwhp w/ a stock bottom end. i know of several cummins. navistar engineers are not idiots by any means but they have 5 mian bearings in the idi's and psd's becuse thats all that will fit. that goes along w/ the smaller con rods. they simply can't fit them in the engine w/o making it too big. look at a navistars inline motors there i bet u will find 7 mains and bigger con rods becuase THEY NEED TO BE THAT BIG TO SURVIVE IN A DIESEL FOR A LONG TIME. idk what u call alot of miles but for me 100,000 is just broke in 200,000 is getting to where u can use it and anything from about 750,000 to 1,000,000 is tried and true and ready for a rebuild or retirement
now i don't want ya'll to get the wrong imperssion tho i think its to late for that. i have had good experiences w/ our feed truck and all my uncles work trucks all of which are ford diesel. they have decent power and they seems to last pretty good under the abuse. we have dusted a couple before. but in all when we look at the cummins which has had just as much if not more abuse w/o any probelms. the cummins now 200,000 miles and its problem free while the psd's are going to the grave.
to the guy that started this thread i think he got his awnser and we have nothing to be sorry for.
in all my intent was never to start a revolution here or on any other thread i was simply stating what i thought im not trying to make the world drive dodge/cummins yes it suits me and i know its not for everyone again i was just stating my postistion like so many others do here already.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
Likes: 30
From: Melbourne, Aus
Originally Posted by mhannink
i guess to start no my 1 mill miles was in no was a tying error idk about down under but here in the good ol US of A we routinly hit a mill miles on the semis in fact i have a picture on my wall of a loaded 1954 kenworth w/ 1.5 mill original miles
as for pullin hills. you pull the hills w/ high rpm because thats where a v8 makes power while im pulling the hills at a much lower rpm where my inline is making power. i spend most of my time around 1500 rpm
At higher rpms (which are fine if the engine has been designed for it) you will be making far more power, so you can pull the hill easier.
as for beefier internals cummins isn't beefier becasue the have to be but beacue they can be. how many psds are over 800 rwhp w/ a stock bottom end. i know of several cummins.
Its ability to make enormous amounts of horsepower mean bugger all to me.(I understand it is important to some, but not to me)
navistar engineers are not idiots by any means but they have 5 mian bearings in the idi's and psd's becuse thats all that will fit. that goes along w/ the smaller con rods. they simply can't fit them in the engine w/o making it too big. look at a navistars inline motors there i bet u will find 7 mains and bigger con rods becuase THEY NEED TO BE THAT BIG TO SURVIVE IN A DIESEL FOR A LONG TIME.
The size and thickness of a con rod has no relation to how long it will last.
idk what u call alot of miles but for me 100,000 is just broke in 200,000 is getting to where u can use it and anything from about 750,000 to 1,000,000 is tried and true and ready for a rebuild or retirement
The life of an engine is very much dependant on its life cycle, my truck didn't hit 1 million miles, and I am sure no PSD here in Australia has (they got introduced here in 2001), but my engine was effectively on a dyno at WOT with 100% load day in day out for 140,000miles - that is a far greater testament to reliability than even 1million miles at 1500rpm.
in all my intent was never to start a revolution here or on any other thread i was simply stating what i thought im not trying to make the world drive dodge/cummins yes it suits me and i know its not for everyone again i was just stating my postistion like so many others do here already.
do a cummins conversion and u will get a far better motor then the powerstroke
Last edited by BigF350; Dec 8, 2005 at 12:57 AM.
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well the psd which when i can i try to pull at 2k which is still high and it has 4.88 and is doing 50 mph in the dodge i like to try to pull around 1500 it has 3.50 and i forget the speed its been a while since ive been in it the dmax pulls at whatever the comp tells it too which is too high for me. idealy when i can i pull around 1500 course the ford isn't going very fast w/ that rear end
i obviouly differ on ur opinion of the size of the con rods because they do break after while from the stress. ive seen it.
as for the cummins comment i obviously didn't mention cost something i was thinking and thought i put down.
i obviouly differ on ur opinion of the size of the con rods because they do break after while from the stress. ive seen it.
as for the cummins comment i obviously didn't mention cost something i was thinking and thought i put down.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
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From: Nutter Fort, WV
Ladies and gentlemen, FTE members and other distinguished guests,
Let me start by saying that I truely appreciate Ford Motor Company and International for putting together the fine truck that has allowed me to win this award for most abused truck on the planet.
I have been trying to kill it for 20 years and it just keeps coming back for more.
We are both getting kind of old now, but I think the truck may out live me.
That is OK though, my son has his eyes on it with a gleam in them.
Well enough of the speech writing, I guess I'll just say thanks and take the award.
My first Ford truck was a 1947 3/4 ton. It was a tough truck.
So was the 60 model that replaced it.
The 76 that replaced that one was tough also.
The 86 I have now is beyond tough, I know because I test it every day far beyond what Ford or International ever thought someone would try to do with a pickup.
The only time I had trouble with it was when I thought I was improving what I had by installing a remanufactured 7.3 turbo motor in it. Boy was i mistaken. If my son had the equipment to do the machine work I have no doubt he could do a better job of rebuilding a diesel engine than the company I bough mine off of. And he has never seen the inside of a diesel engine before.
Do you realize how long it takes to drive a million miles at 400 miles a day?
6.84 years driving 400 miles 365 days a year.
Yes I spent a lot of years driving tractor trailer over the road, and the Cummins was my motor of choice in a Freightliner. Yes I have driven several Cummins motors that had a million miles on them, a couple of them I put the million miles on them.
But the ISB 5.9 Cummins and the Big Cam 400 Cummins motors only have one thing in common, the name on the name plate.
Well I hate to rush off, but I have to go pick up an 11,000 pound excavator and take it across the mountains this morning so I better go fuel up the Ford and get the trailer hooked up.
Let me start by saying that I truely appreciate Ford Motor Company and International for putting together the fine truck that has allowed me to win this award for most abused truck on the planet.
I have been trying to kill it for 20 years and it just keeps coming back for more.
We are both getting kind of old now, but I think the truck may out live me.
That is OK though, my son has his eyes on it with a gleam in them.
Well enough of the speech writing, I guess I'll just say thanks and take the award.
My first Ford truck was a 1947 3/4 ton. It was a tough truck.
So was the 60 model that replaced it.
The 76 that replaced that one was tough also.
The 86 I have now is beyond tough, I know because I test it every day far beyond what Ford or International ever thought someone would try to do with a pickup.
The only time I had trouble with it was when I thought I was improving what I had by installing a remanufactured 7.3 turbo motor in it. Boy was i mistaken. If my son had the equipment to do the machine work I have no doubt he could do a better job of rebuilding a diesel engine than the company I bough mine off of. And he has never seen the inside of a diesel engine before.
Do you realize how long it takes to drive a million miles at 400 miles a day?
6.84 years driving 400 miles 365 days a year.
Yes I spent a lot of years driving tractor trailer over the road, and the Cummins was my motor of choice in a Freightliner. Yes I have driven several Cummins motors that had a million miles on them, a couple of them I put the million miles on them.
But the ISB 5.9 Cummins and the Big Cam 400 Cummins motors only have one thing in common, the name on the name plate.
Well I hate to rush off, but I have to go pick up an 11,000 pound excavator and take it across the mountains this morning so I better go fuel up the Ford and get the trailer hooked up.
Senior User
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well first off u probably abuse it like every other farmer so im not impressed we beat the snot out of our trucks too and the cummins will refuse to die the idi's and psd's however drop after 200k i know 400 miles a day is alot but there are some car haulers on tdr that do it and if it only takes 6 years or so that means that some of the 24v have reached that point now too however the 12v cummins has been in a dodge since 89 plenty of time to reach 1 million miles. the idi's and psd's have had time to reach it too and haven't to me that says something if it doesn't to ya'll then fine idc
the 6bt,isb, and isbe cummins engines have alot more then the name plate in common they have the desgin team at cummins who builds there engines all the same. super tough and to last forever w/o problem and i would say they have succeded. right now the dodge/cummins has the highest resale value of all the diesel pickups so its got to be good. cause hey those are experts judging the value. one question i have for ya'll is just how many of u idi psd lovers have ever driven a cummins paticuraly a caressed one thats had some gentle mods to it?
the 6bt,isb, and isbe cummins engines have alot more then the name plate in common they have the desgin team at cummins who builds there engines all the same. super tough and to last forever w/o problem and i would say they have succeded. right now the dodge/cummins has the highest resale value of all the diesel pickups so its got to be good. cause hey those are experts judging the value. one question i have for ya'll is just how many of u idi psd lovers have ever driven a cummins paticuraly a caressed one thats had some gentle mods to it?
Junior User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 96
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From: cold ole' minnesota
At first this thread was an intresting piece of work. The last post, the one refering to Dave and the opinion that "u probably abuse it like every other farmer" has turned this thread into such a pos. What kind of statement is that to make when refering to perhaps the most usefull person on this FORD forum. Who cares how many FORD drivers have driven a cummins, this isnt a whats you favorite truck forum. this is a FORD forum. I know i have sadi that more then once in the past five sentences, but one more time just so it is not forgotten, this is a FORD forum. How about some constructive posting, aimed at improving everyones FORDs, isnt that what this site is for?
I pray that next time a thread is started with the title, "replacing an e40d with a zf5" and help is asked for , the reply is not some manic response of "why the zf5, thats junk, the tranny in my Allis Chalmers is bullet proof because i say so and it ive got a tractor with 100,000,000 hours on it" .
For the love of god please end this conversation. This is a FORD site, words like dodge and cummins should appear as vulgar, i.e. d**** and c******.
Im out, I have to get to bed and run a test with the gf. Im pretty damn sure she will be much happier when im a "strokin and not a cummins"
I pray that next time a thread is started with the title, "replacing an e40d with a zf5" and help is asked for , the reply is not some manic response of "why the zf5, thats junk, the tranny in my Allis Chalmers is bullet proof because i say so and it ive got a tractor with 100,000,000 hours on it" .
For the love of god please end this conversation. This is a FORD site, words like dodge and cummins should appear as vulgar, i.e. d**** and c******.
Im out, I have to get to bed and run a test with the gf. Im pretty damn sure she will be much happier when im a "strokin and not a cummins"
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,653
Likes: 6
From: Cabot, Arkansas
Originally Posted by mhannink
ill be around here so i can learn whats wrong w/ my engine and fix it
Have you noticed that the only "technical" question you have posted on this board was about your power window motor, and despite your combative attitude the members helped you anyway.
I find it incredulous that you drive a solid, dependable Ford truck, yet the only thing you seem to have time for on this board is insulting other members and telling them how great an engine that you don't even own is.
That makes you a troll, and nothing more.
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