Why the decrease in engine displacement?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 1
From: Everett, Wa
Yes I'm well aware of the Vette's problems, see my sig. And I have not had that problem. In addition any car that sits for an extended period of time will drain the battery. Newer cars have this worse but if you have an alarm system in you vehicle you will have the same problem. My old 77's battery would be dead if I let it set for more than a month.
And I was just like you just a few years ago and I'm 48. But as I learn about the computers in these cars I'm seeing the light of why it is such a good idea. 20 years ago if you would of told me that I could have a car that got 28mpg, did the 1/4 in the low 12's and could run 186mph I would of laughed at you.
And I was just like you just a few years ago and I'm 48. But as I learn about the computers in these cars I'm seeing the light of why it is such a good idea. 20 years ago if you would of told me that I could have a car that got 28mpg, did the 1/4 in the low 12's and could run 186mph I would of laughed at you.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 1
From: Everett, Wa
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Actually... you can. See the link.
http://www.popularhotroddingweb.com/tech/0311_phr_power_squeeze/
You have to do everything right though.
http://www.popularhotroddingweb.com/tech/0311_phr_power_squeeze/
You have to do everything right though.
Don't get me wrong if I could afford a 3 two barrel set up for the 502 that is what would be going and that is a true tuning nightmare. But it cost at least 3 times what FI costs and in the end will not perform as well.
This thread is about why do we see a decrease in engine dispacement. It's because we are getting more out of an engine for a giving displacement. What made this happen is the computer. And it will only get better in the future with varable valve timing and other advancements.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
You know, you're exactly right! That is why I'm running a Holley Commander 950 retrofit EFI system on my FE 390!
I guess I like the older motors, but I'm not opposed to technology.
As to the decrease in engine displacement, it's because of technology and a more thorough understanding of engine theory (better engineering). They can get the same power from fewer cubes, and (theoretically) get better gas mileage.
I guess I like the older motors, but I'm not opposed to technology.
As to the decrease in engine displacement, it's because of technology and a more thorough understanding of engine theory (better engineering). They can get the same power from fewer cubes, and (theoretically) get better gas mileage.
Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: Philly Area, PA
Originally Posted by Bdox
Referring back to several posts. One reference to Indy car engine size. They are the size they are because the rules specify the size. The rules also say that they will be V8s.
Formula I cars are turning over 19,000 rpm. Talk about piston speed. Their displacement is also dictated by their rules.
Formula I cars are turning over 19,000 rpm. Talk about piston speed. Their displacement is also dictated by their rules.
My real point was that one thing that decreasing displacement does is to allow designers to change critical system variables, like piston speed, which most people don't ever think about. Most production engines aren't pushing the limits on piston speed, but considering the lifecycle requirements of a production engine vs a race engine, they might be closer than you'd think.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
Likes: 18
From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Actually... you can. See the link.
http://www.popularhotroddingweb.com/tech/0311_phr_power_squeeze/
You have to do everything right though.
http://www.popularhotroddingweb.com/tech/0311_phr_power_squeeze/
You have to do everything right though.
Great article however.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by tmyers
Its not aero its wieght, comes in at about 3200lbs.
My wifes 4dr Focus weighs in a 3300, a comparable Civic/Corrolla weighs in at 2950. That extra shows up in gas mileage among other things.
Also, my 2003 Ranger XLT (lwb) weights more then my '71 F-100.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
From: Lindsborg, KS
I know that technology may be better, but are we getting as good of quality as we got back when the auto makers were starting out? Do you think these new cars will last 50 years and still run without being restored? My truck, has survieved 50 years, yes i'm putting a new engine in it (technically not all that new but new to it, a 73 MerCruiser) I love the old stuff cause i can work on it without having to worry about frying a computer that would cost as much to replace as a cheap used car. I can rewire my whole truck when i do the engine swap and not mess up unless i'm thinking about what i have been but anyways. Older is simpler and better in my opinion. (i've already been criticezed and praised for my opinions, just depends on your preferences)
Dustin
Dustin
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 1
From: Everett, Wa
I would bet that most of todays cars will last for more driven miles than most of the older cars. But will the last as long in years, probably not. Electrical parts have a limited life expectancy. Wiring starts to break down after 15-20 years, sensor, motors go bad, etc. But you can also work on the new stuff it just takes additional skills. But like anything else sooner or later the old stuff will become very expensive to maintain. Try rebuild a 430 MEL motor with a hyraulic pump on the snot. 500 bucks for the pump and its rebuilt.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
From: Lindsborg, KS
I know you can work on the new stuff, but the point i'm getting at is it's a lot harder now days to work on your own things then it used to be. Electronics are a hard thing to learn, and i'll preferably stay with my old trucks simplicity. My girlfriend and I love my 57 and it's going on a 800 mile trip in 2 years, just making sure it's roadworthy. We all have our own preferences, We all have our own opinion, i'll leave it at that.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by Bdox
Bear in mind, the techniques described in this article are for racers. Fuel economy, emissions, engine life and peace of mind are disregarded. What is described here pushes the limits severely for an engine that is subjected to altitude changes, variations in ambient temperature and humidity. If you have a truck that is a daily driver that tows and runs empty and gets stuck in traffic you have to take a far more conservative approach. Especially if you have to meet emissions standards.
Great article however.
Great article however.
Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: Philly Area, PA
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
No, I dont see where it applies to racers any more than a regular street engine. All the techniques described can be of equal benefit on a street driven motor as on a race motor. You might try reading the whole thing. Pinging is pinging, and the techniques in this article will help minimize it. It is far more dangerous just to throw something together without doing any research.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
Likes: 18
From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Rusty the guy who wrote that article clearly knows his stuff. But he's talking cold air induction, cool cans for fuel, 170 degree thermostats etc. You don't do that sort of thing if you want long engine life. That is strictly racecar stuff. He's talking about extracting maximum power, cautioning about humidity variations and so on. Sure, the principles are the same across the board but the engine in that article would not be streetable and would probably cost upward of 20 grand. This is FTE, not Ford racing headquarters.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
From: Lindsborg, KS
Yeah, some people race their trucks. I'm still not convinced and probably will never be about this technology in engines. Piston slap is more prevalent in new engines. I prefer my old engine that has a distributor and one coil and no sensors to go out that cost a lot to replace. I could go on but then i'll just get criticized more.
Like i said before, we all have our preferences.
Like i said before, we all have our preferences.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
Likes: 18
From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Originally Posted by tmyers
Don't sell FTE short we have people here that do race there trucks.
(Sneaky how those racers mingle in society, just like they were trying to pass themselves off as regular people!)