Over the last few nights I have been reading the responses to topics posted, including trans shudder problems, and have been overwhelmed by the knowledge shown. I hope my remaining questions are not redundant and someone can assist me.

Situation is that I have a 2002 XLT w/ 3.0v6 and I assume CD4E trans. In early August 05 (at 30,900) I took it to a dealer for recall and routine service. Since then I have noticed that it occasionally shifts into OD at 45mph regardless of the load being put on the trans (ie. accelerating up a hill). About 1,000 miles ago (presently at 33,100) I began to notice a shudder when it would hit the OD. I reviewed the service order and the dealer had performed a trans flush and filled with 10 qts of Merc5 (the dealer confirmed last night that it was Mercron 5). Another dealer I spoke to last night stated that Mercron 5 is the preferable fluid and safe for all Escape trans. My questions are:

1. How much damage should I expect at this point since only 2,200 miles driven since service performed and shudder appeared only recently? (Vehicle is typically driven at 30-35mph or 60+mph)
2. Is there any explicit documentation available supporting why Ford has released 2 TSBs regarding not using Mercron 5 in the CD4e trans or documenting why using Mercron 5 will damage the CD4e trans/torque conv?
3. With the routine service (incl trans flus) or accl cable recall would the dealer have flashed the PCM? If so, does anybody know what systems would have been affected by the flash and/or what the updates would have been?

I am worried that a PCM change resulted in the newfound desire to shift into OD at 45mph regardless of conditions and then coupled with the installation of Mercron 5 has damaged the trans and will fail prematurely. My 3-yr warranty expired in Sept 05 and I am sure I will have to show a causative link to the dealer's actions to the trans failure to get them to repair/replace. I think the TSBs should be enough to get them to reflush and fill with straight Mercron.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Hi and welcome to FTE! Be sure to read this to help you around this site: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=300691 There are also State, Provincial and International Chapters located near the bottom of the main forum page.

Someone should be along shortly to help with your question.

See ya on the boards!

-Matt

 

You are screwed, most likely.
CD4E cannot use Mercon V
You need to get all of the paperwork that shows them using the incorrect fluid and get them to give you another tranny.
Sorry, but that seems to be the trend.

 

Yep, hang on to that paperwork. Ford specifically states you CAN NOT put Mercon V in the Escape CD4E (TSBs). If the dealership gives you grief, go up the chain or else you'll be stuck with a $3500 tranny rebuild.

I'd raise the issue now since the warranty just expired. The dealership may try to stall you by putting in the correct fluid and sending you down the path of "flashes" fixing the problem. 6+ months from now when the tranny drops they'll claim it wasn't due to the Mercon V since the flush and flash seemed to solve the problem.

 

Thanks for your replies. I do have the paperwork showing the trans. flush and 10qts of MercronV added, (this has been the only service work performed to date on the trans.), as well as anecdotal evidence from different forums and NHSTA site of CD4E failures related to MercronV usage. I am still trying to find documentation from Ford (Corp or dealer) explicity stating that use of MercronV may lead to shuddering or failure.

When I look through the paperwork I cannot find any mention of them reprogramming the PCM, (I thought this would have been done for either the throttle cable replacement or trans. flush). However, if they did not read the TSB regarding not using MercronV, they also probably did not read the portion regarding reprogramming the PCM. Was this reprogramming supposed to raise the speed at which the OD was to kick in? As I originally posted, after the trans. flush it began shifting into OD around 45pmh. I do not recall this situation prior to the flush. Is the 45pmh threshold a result of the reprogramming or does the reprogramming result in a higher mph threshold before OD kicks in?

Thanks again for your help. I know I am somewhat screwed, but I typically confront such issues prepared with as much info as possible in order to immediately refute the standard cr@p I expect they will tell me. I am more successful than not, though my wife thinks it is due to a desire to get rid of me (she is a "squeaky wheel" theorist and says I am definitely a squeaky wheel.)

 

There will be a sticker on the ECU showing what revision level the programming is at if they did a re-flash.

 

Is this CD4E transmission in the 2005 Mariners too? My mother is coming up on her first service on it and I just want to know if I should be worrying for her.

 

The CD4E is on the automatic Escape/Tribute/Maverick. It's been in use since 1994 (Mazda). If you do your own oil changes, it's much easier to open the tranny plug (drains 4 qts) every oil change for a total cost of $4. I believe the service book that came with your vehicle doesn't even show a flush until 150k miles though the dealership will want to charge ~$100 every 30k miles. A $4 drain every (or every other) oil change keeps it fresh and replaces the fluid at a much faster rate than the dealership. It's a shame when the dealerships cannot use the correct fluid.

 

I looked at the ECU and the only reprogramming note is regarding the 'stalling' recall and it was performed in June of 2004. No other notes are apparent. Wasn't this 'stalling' reprogramming also supposed to have the reprogramming necessary to eliminate the 'shuddering' issue?

I have also obtained what appears to be a one-paragraph summary of TSB 16896 wherein Ford explicitly states that the 2001-2004 Escapes equipped with a CD4E trans exclusively use Mercon and not MerconV or Mercon Synthetic. Is this one-paragraph typical of an entire TSB or is there usually more detail, ie. the why. Does anyone have access to the entire TSB that they can make available, via fax or email, or is the one-paragraph the entire TSB?

 

I found this on the web
SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES 16896
2001-2004 ESCAPE USE ONLY 'MERCON' -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC' FOR THE CD4E TRANSMISSION ALL 2001-2004 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE EXCLUSIVELY USE 'MERCON' FLUID -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC'. MERCON IS THE ONLY FORD APPROVED AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID FOR USE IN THE CD4E. MERCON FLUID PART # IS XT-2-QDX (QUARTS) AND XT-2-DDX (55 GALLON DRUM). FOR CANADA MERCON FLUID PART # IS CXT-2-BM FOR BULK, CXT-2-4LM FOR 4 LITRE BOTTLES, AND CXT-2-LM12 FOR 1 LITRE BOTTLES.

2001-2003 ESCAPE
AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE SHUDDER
SOME 2001-2003 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E TRANSAXLE MAY EXHIBIT AN AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE SHUDDER. THIS CONCERN MAYBE DUE TO THE TRANSMISSION CONTROL STRATEGY. DO NOT CHANGE TORQUE CONVERTER. TO SERVICE, DRAIN, FLUSH AND REFILL THE TRANSMISSION FLUID WITH MERCON XT-2-QDX. THEN, REPROGRAM THE PCM WITH THE LATEST CALIBRATION AVAILABLE USING WDS RELEASE B24.3 OR LATER. NOTE: THE SHUDDER WILL NOT COMPLETELY GO AWAY AFTER SERVICE UNTIL THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN DRIVEN FOR APPROXIMATELY 10 MILES.


SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES 18173
2001-2004 ESCAPE WITH CD4E TRANSAXLE - WHINE 25-45 MPH (40-72 KM/H)
SOME 2001-2004 ESCAPES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E TRANSAXLE MAY EXHIBIT A FINAL DRIVE WHINE AT 25-45 MPH (40-72 KM/H) DURING LIGHT ACCELERATION OR DECELERATION, MOST NOTICEABLE ON VEHICLES WITH STEEL WHEELS. THE DAMPER KIT PREVIOUSLY RELEASED FOR THIS CONDITION IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE, BUT A NEW PART IS UNDER DEVELOPMENT AND SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2005. IF CONDITION IS EXCESSIVE COMPARED TO A LIKE UNIT, PROCEED WITH NORMAL REPAIR AND DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES. IF CONDITION IS SIMILAR TO A LIKE UNIT, DO NOT ATTEMPT REPAIR UNTIL THE NEW KIT IS AVAILABLE. WHEN DIAGNOSING THIS CONDITION IT IS IMPORTANT TO CLEARLY IDENTIFY THE SPEED AT WHICH THE NOISE OCCURS. THE OLD AND NEW DAMPER KITS ARE ONLY EFFECTIVE FOR A WHINE WITHIN THE 25-45 MPH (40-72 KM/H) RANGE AND WILL OFFER NO BENEFITS FOR A WHINE AT OTHER SPEEDS.

 

I found the same items and am unsure if they are the TSBs in their entirety or if there is more. Hoping that someone with Oasis access perhaps may be able to provide some assistance if there is more substance to the TSBs.

 

Just an update:

Well ... I just dropped off the Escape at the dealership where they are reflushing the trans and flashing the pcm at no charge. The service manager was fairly quick to make it no charge upon looking at my original service order, wherein they replaced the Mercon with the MerconV, and searched in Oasis and got the service message/bulletins. I was rather concerned though when I had to tell the service tech creating the new service order that only Mercon is to be put in the trans and point to SSM 16896 to convince him. However, this was not my only concern with this morning.

The service manager initially informed me that the shuddering is only due to the wrong shift points, which the pcm flash will cure, and it causes no further damage. When I called him on this statement (pointed out that the shift points never caused it before the MerconV was installed, that the CD4E is known to have fluid break-down issues which the higher shift points is to counter, and that it has been acknowledged by Ford that the CD4E is designed for only Mercon and that MerconV will cause problems and damage to the CD4E) he informed me that he is not an engineer and cannot state the cause of the shuddering or extent of damages. I thought that rather funny since he just did prior to me calling him on it.

Nonetheless, he is personally guaranteeing that any damage/problems experienced down the road will be rectified at no charge. I just need to keep the paperwork. I am still working on him to put the guarantee on the actual service order though he does not appear willing to do this.

Another concern from this morning: I asked him why they did not originally perform the trans flush per the service messages/bulletins in Oasis and he informed me that they are not allowed to per Ford becuase they consider it "preemptive selling". They are only allowed to look anything up in Oasis if the customer has a complaint. I informed him of how ludicrous his statement was that messages from Ford engineers, intended to instruct the ford techs on how to perform their jobs, are not allowed to be read. Such a system is undeniably flawed and though "preemptive selling" may not occur, ignoring messages of how to do the proper maintenance on a vehicle, i.e. ssm 16896 wherein it instructs to only use Mercon in the CD4E, is creating future sales. Either the car will not perform correctly, with the customer paying for further maintenance/diagnotic work, or the automobile will experience a complete failure of some sort, with the customer paying for removal, rebuild/replacement, and reinstallation. He agreed it is a major flaw in the Ford mandated procedures and that consumers need to complain to Ford to get them to change this policy, (however, he said that Ford would cover any problems experienced by consumers contained in messages/bulletins within Oasis).

Any thoughts? Has anybody been able to link the shift points to the shudder or was the change in shift points to keep the fluid cooler so the shudder would not occur? Has anybody else heard that Ford Corp. does not allow their dealership service techs to look in Oasis unless a customer has a specific complaint? I wonder what they would do if a message came out regarding changes to how they get paid for performing warranty work.

Thanks all for your prior assistance and knowledge. I await the completion of the reflush/flash and will hope for the best. Hopefully I can get his guarantee in writing and never have to use it.

 

People have speculated changing the shift points keeps the tranny cooler but I'm not aware of any proof. I've seen people post that their tranny failed sometime after the reflash/flush and others are going strong 50k+ miles later. Personally, I put 85k+ on my 02 V6 Escape before it was totaled and had no problems. I've already got 27k+ on the 05 I4 auto (CD4E tranny) and haven't experienced any issues. Google on "mazda cd4e" and you'll see the tranny was introduced in 1994 and originally had issues. There isn't an overwhelming number of Escapes/Tributes/Mariners/Mavericks with failures but the tranny does seem to be the weakest link. Personally, I've tried keeping some numbers and it "seems" the AWD has more problems but I can't claim my numbers are proof within valid statistical faults. You might also google on "escape cd4e justagirl" to find some other info. Justagirl was a Ford employee who had some insight before Ford shut her down.

 

We have a 2003 and a 1999 ford taurus- someone told me that the escape and the taurus shared the same transmission. is this true? we've experienced transmission shudder in both of them. i wonder if the correct trans. fluid was used in them because all trans. service was done at the ford dealership. thanks for the help.
-Matt

 

As long as I had the paperwork, I wouldn't worry