MR,
I've said my piece in the other threads too, but the article referenced does warrant a couple more comments. First, the thread points out that Ford Motor Company posted a quarterly profit of nearly double that of XOM (17.6) billion in the first quarter of 1998. There were no witch hunts or cries for crucifixion then. Why? Also, notice that XOM's capital expenditures went up by about 25%; meaning direct cost. Look where the new oil is coming from - western Africa. There has been no one screaming about the hundreds of millions spent on exploration and development there; and they are the sources that will replace the current fields that are producing less. Wal-Mart and Microsoft are the two closest corporate entities in the US to monopolies, not oil. Wal-mart has posted record profits in several of the last few quarters. Why is no one pissing and moaning about that? Their business model is much more ruthless than XOM, but advertised as wholesome and accepted as such.

Also, as Million stated, what about professional sports? I'd be willing to bet that there's way more profit in Nascar or the NFL than in oil.

Think about this: what if you discovered a cure for cancer. All by yourself, and you could produce it in saleable quantities in your living room for let's say $10 per unit. Millions of people's lives depend on that cure. You've spent 20 years of your time and your money to come up with it. You decide to market your magic pill/potion/cream/whatever. What would you personally set as a profit benchmark? How would you react to the gov't in some form or another telling you that you are not entitled to a windfall profit, just because you have the only known cure? We all know that most people (or their ins companies) would pay through the nose for such a cure. Time to test your argument.

 

I agree with i think are some of the more free market people here like MRKnight, dono, and 76. Its been in this country from day one its what works the best. For those who say gov needs to step in because the price of gas is to high your wrong. Guys the firms do NOT DECIDE the PRICE OF GAS. how many times must i say this. WE DO!!!! As consumer we control how much we buy at what price...there is not blame on anyone here. its just a market good that heavily relied about therefore bring more importance on it. this is goin to be a little off topic but there is no arguement against MRKnight that your little medicine story works for. The gov is already doin it for a real thing. Take this story for example.

Let me ask you this kidneys can only be donated. you cannot sell them. Now lets say that your on the waitin list for a kidney, all likley hood you would not get one. Ok now what would happen if you could sell them do you think the market for organs would get bigger or smaller....well since i dont feel like waitin for a response ill tell you it would be bigger. More people would be willing to sell there kidneys and more people could now buy them...Now how does this not make since to a person in washington sayin no we will not allow someone to sell you a kidney, so instead go ahead and wait for one and probably die. Whereas if you could of bought one you would be living. And do not tell me that you could not afford one, bc i think you would find some way to live.

 

I guess I should have split the post up. The medicine analogy was not directed to MRKnight, it was a generic argument to all who are complaining about the profits of XOM. The rest of the post defends XOM's margins and motivations - I was just looking for someone to tell me that once they had control of a commodity worth billions of dollars of annual raw profit that they would want the gov't to regulate their bottom line to allow the poorer cancer patients to be able to afford the cure. I want them to tell me that they would be willing to lower the price of this golden egg because the public at large thinks it's too expensive; and that the value of their intellectual and industrial property should be dictated by folks who didn't have the billion dollar idea.

I think MR and I are very closely aligned on this issue, particularly based on our comments in the other thread. To clarify my position,I'll post the following: (sorry I don't know how to link a specific post)

 

im glad to see someone else that understand also then. one thing though. oil companies are not sellin to us, then whatever is left over to the other countries. they will sell to where ever the most profit is.

 

ssshhhhhhh nobody likes the truth.

 

I love it. It's capitalism at it's best. I hope they raise my dividend.

 

The problem is that oil isn't truly a supply and demand market, it's a futures market. The price of oil isn't set by the amount needed, it's set by the amount percieved to be needed in the future. It costs somewhere along the lines of $1.50 cents to produce 1 barrel of oil and the guys in the futures market are willing to pay $60... why is that? That profit is going somewhere.

Also, if the gasoline companies aren't raising their prices in a less than moral way, then why is diesel higher than gasoline now? There's no valid reason for this as diesel is a cheaper fuel to make! The only reason I see is that the diesel market will be strong as long as goods are needed to be delivered, and the gas companies have found that they can charge that rate and it will be paid.

 

How much profit should a Company make?

Just curious

Mike

 

Diesel doesn't have to compete with home heating oil in the summer, but winter is coming, and now we need to use both.

I suppose corporations are allowed to make as much profit as they want, but is it moral? That's for everyone to decide for themselves. If we don't like the price of gas, we should use less. That's the way this market works.

I see so many Excursions, Expeditions, and Suburbans(don't wanna leave chebbie out) with only one occupant, it makes me sick. And they all fly past me at greater than the speed limit. Everyone's in a hurry, and they're all burning fuel like there's no tomorrow.

Tomorrow's here, and we brought it here. Consuming in mass quantities costs money, and now we pay the piper. Be glad the gov't doesn't tax fuel and gas guzzlers the way they do in Europe.

 

Since I have a retirement account, I hope all the companies that I own make as much as they can.

I also think an individual should make as much money as they can. Poverty isn't fun nor is it fun being a loser.

 

Excellent 95CobraR

Most people are pissed when they arent in the action. If they had bought stock of what everyone knows is a dependency then part or all of their problem could be solved. I was talking to my boss the other day about gas prices. Asked if he owned any oil stock and he said yes and I then asked if he worried about gas prices or if the stock dividends paid for it. He said when the price goes up so does his dividend, so he about evened out. Thats the planning ahead most people do not do.

 

A (supposedly) "crippled" liar and thief, is still a liar and a thief - corporate or not. And I don't see any one-legged oil barons around...

I have no patience at all for extortionists.

They BS'd us, people. And I for one am ANGRY.
(As if we would never notice...)

I will do my best to use as little as possible, at the best prices I can find, and try whatever I can find to come up with some other way to get around.

In twenty years, may they rot in hell!

 

Not EVERYONE who uses gasoline,Diesel,heating Oil, Natural Gas,Electricity & other Energy commodities was in a viable position to purchase Stock in these energy companies.
One NEEDS Money to do that

This isn';'t a supply & demand situation,.

This is a "People need it so we will charge want we want (inclduing the taxes on it) because people who can afford it will pay it" philosophy, & those that can't....... well too bad

So, Basically you're saying it's okay that the Rich Get Richer & the Poor Get Poorer because they SHOULD have when they actually they COULDN'T have.

Where does the money come from for these people that aren't oil execs,or born into a rich family...... get the money to buy stock ?

It's the same as the people say > if you don't like the money you make now, change jobs.

Well guess what,..it isn't that easy to latch onto a Well Paying job, just like that

Yes, Education makes a difference but a person 50-60 years old can't do the 12 years of university to become a professional.

Maybe they learned a trade that went sour ?
Maybe a larger comapny ran them out of business ?


My thinking... from what I have witnessed,

Life is all about money, timing, destiny & fate.

Someone has to do the $6.00/hour or less job.

 

Quando, mis amigo?

"Some people pick lettuce, some drive the chevy?"

I'd like to think there is a way to step outside of it all, but I have not found it yet...

 

Well my buying stock was more of an example of how some planned for what could happen. Its not the only way to do it. make Biodiesel or ride a motorcycle that gets good mileage, carpool...etc.

And as far as getting money for it. Dont think about getting a higher paying job, do something that will make you money. real estate can make you money with little effort after the first few months IF you do it right. Learning how to do something OTHER than work for someone is the best way to get ahead. Stop working for other and get others to work for you. the reason a lot of people have made is because they looked beyond a paycheck. Something my generation and those before me were taught to do. It doesnt work anymore, job security and a garranteed paycheck just dont exist anymore.