no pedal, but more problems
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New User
Joined: Oct 2005
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no pedal, but more problems
Hi,
My Problem:
1992 F350 Diesel 4wd DRW.
Had a hole in a rear brake line. ABS & Brake light came on in dash, and pedal went to floor.
Had lines replaced. Replaced rear wheel cylinders (so we can now use the bleeder screws).
Fronts were 100% replaced a few months ago.
Having alot of trouble, getting the air out of the lines.
Start truck up, pedal goes to the floor.
Replaced Master Cylinder with "NEW" from NAPA.
Still can't get the air out of the lines.
(we are bleeding in the correct order).
Start truck up, pedal still goes to the floor.
We've jacked up the LR, and bled it about 20 times, but keep getting large bubbles going back in the bleeding bottle.
We are currently replacing the master cylinder again.
Oh yeah, we took the RABS off completely, basically by passing it so we
can get the rest of the system to hold, before we put it back on.
ANY IDEAS OUT THERE??
Thanks!
My Problem:
1992 F350 Diesel 4wd DRW.
Had a hole in a rear brake line. ABS & Brake light came on in dash, and pedal went to floor.
Had lines replaced. Replaced rear wheel cylinders (so we can now use the bleeder screws).
Fronts were 100% replaced a few months ago.
Having alot of trouble, getting the air out of the lines.
Start truck up, pedal goes to the floor.
Replaced Master Cylinder with "NEW" from NAPA.
Still can't get the air out of the lines.
(we are bleeding in the correct order).
Start truck up, pedal still goes to the floor.
We've jacked up the LR, and bled it about 20 times, but keep getting large bubbles going back in the bleeding bottle.
We are currently replacing the master cylinder again.
Oh yeah, we took the RABS off completely, basically by passing it so we
can get the rest of the system to hold, before we put it back on.
ANY IDEAS OUT THERE??
Thanks!
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 1
From: Central NY
You bench bled the master?
How are you bleeding? It sounds like one person on the pedal another at the bleeder.
With the bleeder closed will the pedal pump up?
Will it pump up with the engine off? (might be the vacuum amp)
Are you using the full bleeding order LR, RR, LF, RF ? You said you were just want to confirm.
Thanks,
Tim
How are you bleeding? It sounds like one person on the pedal another at the bleeder.
With the bleeder closed will the pedal pump up?
Will it pump up with the engine off? (might be the vacuum amp)
Are you using the full bleeding order LR, RR, LF, RF ? You said you were just want to confirm.
Thanks,
Tim
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 6
From: Lakewood, Ohio
Are you using the full bleeding order LR, RR, LF, RF ?
which in english is passenger rear, drivers rear, passenger front, and drivers front.
have you checked all the lines?
do you keep the master cyl full when you are bleeding?
getting rid of the rabs was not needed and may be a hassle when you have to rebleed again.
does your helper know how to bleed brakes?
which in english is passenger rear, drivers rear, passenger front, and drivers front.
have you checked all the lines?
do you keep the master cyl full when you are bleeding?
getting rid of the rabs was not needed and may be a hassle when you have to rebleed again.
does your helper know how to bleed brakes?
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Oct 2005
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Hi.
Yes, Bench Bled the master cylinder, before installing.
Yes, we've been bleeding in that order.
One person pumping the pedal, the mechanic bleeding using a collection bottle.
(which enables us to see all the air traveling up in the hose going to the bottle).
Yes, the reservoir has been full each time.
the pedal will pump up (with truck engine off), but it doesn't pump up
any more after 7 pumps, as it did in the first pump.
After pumping (whether 7 times or once) it holds tight.
Then we are able to bleed.
My helper is actually a mechanic, so yes, he knows how to bleed.
We've actually bled the whole thing in that order numerous times. BUt where we stopped was on the LR, because off all the air we keep getting.
That's why we are trying another new master cylinder.
I've read alot of forums, where people have replaced the same things (a couple of times) but still have a problem. Arghhh!
Thanks for the questions.
Yes, Bench Bled the master cylinder, before installing.
Yes, we've been bleeding in that order.
One person pumping the pedal, the mechanic bleeding using a collection bottle.
(which enables us to see all the air traveling up in the hose going to the bottle).
Yes, the reservoir has been full each time.
the pedal will pump up (with truck engine off), but it doesn't pump up
any more after 7 pumps, as it did in the first pump.
After pumping (whether 7 times or once) it holds tight.
Then we are able to bleed.
My helper is actually a mechanic, so yes, he knows how to bleed.
We've actually bled the whole thing in that order numerous times. BUt where we stopped was on the LR, because off all the air we keep getting.
That's why we are trying another new master cylinder.
I've read alot of forums, where people have replaced the same things (a couple of times) but still have a problem. Arghhh!
Thanks for the questions.
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Oct 2005
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OK, here's an update.
The brand new rear wheel cylinders, were bad.
We have good brake in the rear.
We block off the front (at the master cylinder), everything is fine.
We hook the fronts back up, everything pumps up fine, until we
start the truck, then the pedal goes to the floor.
We just happen to have another F350 sitting right next to it.
We swapped the booster. Still no pedal with truck is running.
We swapped the master cylinder. Still no pedal with truck is running.
(Mind you, the other truck, brakes working fine before we borrowed parts from it).
We are going to try to bleed the front calipers, with them taken off the truck, just
to make wure 100% of the air is out.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions???????
Thanks!
The brand new rear wheel cylinders, were bad.
We have good brake in the rear.
We block off the front (at the master cylinder), everything is fine.
We hook the fronts back up, everything pumps up fine, until we
start the truck, then the pedal goes to the floor.
We just happen to have another F350 sitting right next to it.
We swapped the booster. Still no pedal with truck is running.
We swapped the master cylinder. Still no pedal with truck is running.
(Mind you, the other truck, brakes working fine before we borrowed parts from it).
We are going to try to bleed the front calipers, with them taken off the truck, just
to make wure 100% of the air is out.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions???????
Thanks!
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 6
From: Lakewood, Ohio
man, what a bummer!
i can't think of anything off the top of my head, i will look in ford manual to see if they have any solutions for you.
i just looked up troubleshooting brakes and can find nothing that you did not do.
i can't think of anything off the top of my head, i will look in ford manual to see if they have any solutions for you.
i just looked up troubleshooting brakes and can find nothing that you did not do.
Last edited by quicklook2; Oct 29, 2005 at 04:32 PM.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Channahon Il.
I had the same problem a few weeks ago. I thought my front was good, and the back was all new. So I replaced the front pads and it came right up. They weren't as good as I thought. With the pads worn it takes more volume to fill the caliper.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Oct 2005
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Cfdchf,
did your pedal pump up fine (while truck engine off), then lose pedal when running?
Did you have any trouble bleeding the fronts when you installed new pads?
Thanks
did your pedal pump up fine (while truck engine off), then lose pedal when running?
Did you have any trouble bleeding the fronts when you installed new pads?
Thanks
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 1
From: Central NY
Well deisels have little vacuum at idle so I beleive they use a vacuum pump. Check that.
Did you put anything on the bleeder threads so air wouldn't get sucked back in there?
Does your truck have front/ all-wheel ABS? I know the F150's only had rear wheel but I know little of the F350 series...
You must all be really scratching your heads over this one, sorry if I couldn't help much.
Tim
Did you put anything on the bleeder threads so air wouldn't get sucked back in there?
Does your truck have front/ all-wheel ABS? I know the F150's only had rear wheel but I know little of the F350 series...
You must all be really scratching your heads over this one, sorry if I couldn't help much.
Tim
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 6
From: Lakewood, Ohio
manual says:
brake master cyl.res., loosen the mas. cyl. to hydralic line fittings.
wrap shop cloth around tubing below fitting
push brake pedal down slowely to the floor of the cab. this will force air out.
hold brake pedal dpown until you tighten fitting than release pedal
repeat until air ceases to escape from fittings
brake master cyl.res., loosen the mas. cyl. to hydralic line fittings.
wrap shop cloth around tubing below fitting
push brake pedal down slowely to the floor of the cab. this will force air out.
hold brake pedal dpown until you tighten fitting than release pedal
repeat until air ceases to escape from fittings
Thread Starter
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New User
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Popa Tim: My diesel has about 24 inch in vacuum. I read somewhere, that it needed at least 18.
We didnt' put anything on the bleeder screws. I "think" the air problem as been fixed, unless that is our problem with the pedal going to the floor.
My truck only has Rear ABS, and we are convinced our problem is in the front end now, since we blocked both off seperately, and the rears hold pedal.
Thanks Popa Tim.
Quicklook2:
We've actually done that too. Basically bleeding at the mastercylinder. We do it everytime we unhook the lines from the master cylinder.
Thank you for forwarding that onto me though!
Scratching my head...... until this, I use to have a full head of hair.
We didnt' put anything on the bleeder screws. I "think" the air problem as been fixed, unless that is our problem with the pedal going to the floor.
My truck only has Rear ABS, and we are convinced our problem is in the front end now, since we blocked both off seperately, and the rears hold pedal.
Thanks Popa Tim.
Quicklook2:
We've actually done that too. Basically bleeding at the mastercylinder. We do it everytime we unhook the lines from the master cylinder.
Thank you for forwarding that onto me though!
Scratching my head...... until this, I use to have a full head of hair.
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Oct 2005
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I've read alot of articles/forums, and unfortunately, there have been alot of frustrated people out there (like me), and where the forums left off..... the people still haven't found a fix.
I'm getting worried. I need my truck!
anybody want a Ford..... really cheap! (Runs well, just might not stop)
I'm getting worried. I need my truck!
anybody want a Ford..... really cheap! (Runs well, just might not stop)
Tuned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: MI
Did you check the self adjusters on the rear brakes? If they aren't holding, the springs will pull the pads all the way back in. Next time you hit the brakes, it has to push a bunch of fluid back into it. Basically, another volume issue. It would require alot more fluid so the pedal would nearly go to the floor.
A self adjuster assembly just fell off my passenger rear. When it happened, I thought I blew a brake line. The pedal went all the way to the floor then the fronts would lock up. So then I thought the master cylinder was bad, but then heard the rattling and grinding in the rear. When I took the drum off, I discovered those pieces. After replaceing the adjuster parts, the brakes were back to normal.
My dad had a similar problem with a box van he used to drive. The adjusters wore out and didn't hold. One day the pedal randomly started going to the floor. With a loaded box van, thats a scary situation. After replacing the master cylinder, the problem was still there. He then looked at the back brakes and found the adjuster in pieces. Once it was replaced, the brakes were good again.
Just another thing to check out if you haven't already.
A self adjuster assembly just fell off my passenger rear. When it happened, I thought I blew a brake line. The pedal went all the way to the floor then the fronts would lock up. So then I thought the master cylinder was bad, but then heard the rattling and grinding in the rear. When I took the drum off, I discovered those pieces. After replaceing the adjuster parts, the brakes were back to normal.
My dad had a similar problem with a box van he used to drive. The adjusters wore out and didn't hold. One day the pedal randomly started going to the floor. With a loaded box van, thats a scary situation. After replacing the master cylinder, the problem was still there. He then looked at the back brakes and found the adjuster in pieces. Once it was replaced, the brakes were good again.
Just another thing to check out if you haven't already.
Last edited by RC Dan; Oct 29, 2005 at 09:15 PM.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Channahon Il.
Twister, Mine would pump up just fine with the engine off and fall to within an inch of the floor as soon as you start it. Like RcDan said make sure your back brakes are adjusted tight. then go to the front. it may be worn pads, As soon as I changed mine it bleed out fine. One other thing it can't be the booster the only symptom that the booster will cause is a Hard pedal if it fails.
Last edited by Cfdchf; Oct 29, 2005 at 09:42 PM.
