Can anyone explain to me where the extra mileage is supposed to come from in hybrids? they have regular engines, tones of machinery, tons of complication. I can understand a bit of recharge in braking, but that isnt much help in cruising.

It seems to me that if one were to purchase a tiny,funny looking, underpowered regular drivetrain car, there wouldnt be that much difference than with the hybrid. Maybe I'm stuck on stupid, but I just don't see the Magic in normal driving. Where does the free mileage come from???

Ken

 

My understanding on the subject is kind of hazy too, but this is as much as I know.

a) The gas engine in hybrids are used mostly to charge the battery, unless it is absolutely necessary as in freeway driving.

b) While it's charging the battery, it runs at a specific operating point, and they can tune the heck out of the engine at that point to make it super efficient. The reason our regular cars are not as efficient is because we have to operate the car at different speed under different load conditions.

c) Under freeway driving condition, the electric motor won't cut it, so they need to boost the drivetrain with the gasoline engine, and this will take it out of its most efficient operating point. As a result, hybrid cars are more efficient on surface streets than on the freeway.

d) That's about all I know, someone else will come along shortly to correct me, I'm sure

Regards

 

If you want a basic idea on how hybrids work go to this site:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm

The extra mileage comes from the electric motor like Copper said I didn't know they weren't fit for freeway driving though. Most electric motors are also connected to a tranny with only 1 gear ratio since they can spin up to about 15,000 RPMs.

I think hybrids are just an experiment with no future and a better technology has to come along to replace gas engines. My feeling is the big oil companies would try to buy out any companies with a decent idea to replace the gas engine before they go public.

I'm sure when having a gas engine isn't an option someone will come up with something. I have a good feeling about the hydrogen vehicles but hydrogen is so hard and costly to produce I don't think it will ever get out of the water.

 

hydrogen will become "profitable" when the oil companys have "milked" the last drop of oil out of the ground and sold it to the last customer willing to pay the price.'
have you seen who is hyping their NEW hydrogen technology they are developing in tv adds? begins with M and ends with $65 BILLION in profits this year

hybrids come into their realm in city type driving with lots of braking with electric motor/generator instead of friction heat conversion, stop and go driving where the gas engine is turned off at stops, Honda Accord V6 technique, cylinder turn off by shutting off fuel injectors and opening valves with solenoid oil control system to reduce fuel demand and horsepower output under light loads, small engines-who needs 200 hp going light to light.

most of these techniques are almost worthless at freeway cruise speeds for hours on end. who wants to drive a 1200 lb car on 4 shinny high pressure tires, a 1L engine that puts out 50 hp at 70 mph and stands 32 inches high at the roof line
between screaming 40 ton semis.

 

see, you learn something everyday. always thought hybrids just used the electric motors for take-off, or hard acceleration and regenerative braking. then they'd switch off to use the IC for running speed. seen quite a few on the expressway's in Atlanta. of course, I'm with 94 on the safety issue. I wouldn't want to be driving one in traffic anywhere, much less Houston or Atlanta.

 

sorry, that should read 96, not 94.

 

Dear xuzeme,

I think you are right about hybrids using the electric for acceleration help. They are funny here in arizona. we have a 7 mile hill just north of town and I was pased by a hybrid at the early part of the hill but it seemed that the electric blue, hypertext, chrome polished bonzi battery box of electrons just pooped out at 70 mph and a 6% grade after 2 miles or so. The lovely green 14 year old aero just slid by him and I never saw him again. When he ran out of electrons, he had to paddle up the hill at 40 mph.

Can it be true that there is no replacement for displacement????

Ken

 

Just found something in a magazine. The toyota prius has 70 hp continuous. the electric motor can add 44 for a few minutes. Imagine, this thing has less hp than a harley. If you ever get passed by a hybrid, just wait for the next hill.

I guess it is related, but did you know that a ww2 submarine'could only run at full speed underwater for 1 hour before completely discharging its batteries, 8 or 9 knots. Much longer of course if they went very, very slow.


Ken

 

"now that's funny" Ken
"git 'er done"
if he's got the horses

 

That was definitely true with Honda's Insight; 48 HP gas engine, aided by a battery operated 8 hp electric motor on acceleration. The battery was charged completely by regenerative braking power.

The newer hybrid cars, like the Prius, have much more sophisticated control algorithms that, as someone mentioned, attempt to keep running on battery using the electric motor as often as possible, as it can be run closer to its regions of maximum efficiency, and engaging the engine for charging, or when more power is needed.

One thing that none of the manufacturers mention too often is that the regenerative braking system can recapture a maximum of about 20% of the energy that normally goes to brake heating. The main reason is that most of the time that you're braking, you're trying to remove kinetic energy at a much higher rate than the battery can recharge at, so you have to scrub it with the brake pads. Therefore, even if there were no losses in the charging system, there is generally no way to recover all the energy through regenerative braking. So that Prius commercial showing that guy repeatdely stopping ("charging") and going ("discharging") is, in my opinion, one of the stupidest demonstrations of regenerative braking.

 

the hybrids are not yet the perpetual motion machines manufacturers would like us to believe. oh well, maybe one day. for now I'll stick to displacement.

 

It was fun passing that bonzi battery box on the hill in my 14 year old aero. I think he is still mad.

ken

 

wait until the traffic Gods dedicate HOV lanes to include Hybrids and other fuel conservation vehicles, to be controlled by overhead and in the vehicle WiFi systems. Gas Hog 4 wdr Pickups, Corvettes, Vipers and Humvees in the right lane please with the semis.

 

Hydrogen will never be the fuel of the future, and here is why. It is impossible to produce hydrogen at a power benefit. It takes a lot of energy to seperate water into hydrogen and oxygen. It then takes further engergy to store the hydrogen. Hydrogen will leak out of a steel tank with no opening at zero pressure. It literally goes right through the steel.

The future in energy, whether people like it or not, in nuclear, wind, solar and biofuel.
Biofuel is already makeing its mark, in the form of biodiesel and ethanol. Some countrys are already produceing surpluses of ethanol, and we just do have the infastruture to support it at the moment. Biodiesel can be produced very efficiently, and in considerable quantities. The problem there is the lack of infastructure, but that is already forming, and todays diesels, especially imports, run better on biodiesel that on conventional petroleum diesel. Ethanol cannot be produced effectively in the us, unless we switch to sugar beets or sugar can as the source, since the current choice of corn is poor. Corn cannot produce enough ethanol per acre to support out demands for it. Also, most of todays cars cannot run on ethanol without mdifications. Ford has Flex Fuel systems that support ethanol, and GM has a few models too. Most cars that can run on 85 octance can e modified to use ethanol instead of gasoline.

 

Just a little FYI.

I watched a show on one of the Discovery Channels a couple weeks ago and they were featuring Brazil and talking about how all they have now is bio diesel/sugar beat ethel. They are self sufficent and import very little oil. The government started taking steps back in the 70s after the Mid East embargo to switch to alternative fuels. They do still sell dino fuels, but right now it is running $4 gal, where the bio stuff runs around a $1 a gallon.

Alternative fuel is out there and we could easily do it (proven in Brazil.) The public and government just has to demand it.