Then I can just open the gas cap for a drink? Cool

 

Interesting topic. Often overlooked in the hybrid discussions is the trade off in real dollar savings. Yes, hybrids get better gas mileage thus providing a short term savings in fuel costs over conventional vehicles. Hybrids cost significantly more than comparable sized vehicles (Escape vs Escape Hybrid for instance) and the ticking financial time bomb is the cost of battery replacements. I've read of estimated battery replacement costs of between $3,000 and $7,000 for batteries which would rapidly eat up any fuel cost savings. A 'green' hybrid car site skirts this issue nicely by claiming batteries are expected to last for "life of the vehicle' which they later say is 100,000 miles and avoid the thorny cost issue altogether. Other, more technical sites seem to feel normal battery usage would mean replacement every 8-10 years. Call me skeptical but these NiMH batteries are just larger versions of current battery technology and I fail to see how these will outlast the ones that are forever failing to hold a charge in my shaver, camcorder and cell phone.

 

It is true about Brazil doing this, the problem is that this ethanol fuel was subsidized by the govt. that means that they taxed food and other things to artificially lower the cost of this fuel. To the best of my knowledge, the program was a total failure. If it were worth anything, we would all be doing it. there is no magic out there. I followed the brazil plan closely, their program is a net loss in energy.

Ken

 

Just want to separate myth from fact here. My Ford Escape Hybrids look identical to the gas only version with the exception of a little vent on the rear window that allows air flow to cool the batteries in the back. The inside is identical. So, a Hybrid Escape is no more a little box than a regular Escape.

I had an '04 Escape with the V6 and got an average of about 19 mpg in the type of driving I do most often, commuting to work and back. In the Hybrid, I get about 35-37 mpg doing the exact same commute. On the highway, driving 65-70 mpg, I get about 32 mpg. One heck of a lot better than I ever got with the V6. The use of regenerative braking, according to Ford, contributes a large amount to the increased fuel mileage. You are turning a 90 HP electric motor into a generator - that's a good amount of juice. The gas engine is about 120 HP so combined it is comparable to the V6.

Acceleration from a standing start is excellent. On the highway it is acceptable to good. I have never had a problem keeping up with traffic at any speed, in any terrain, in any conditions. If you pass someone driving a Hybrid real slow, they were probably intentionally driving slow to maximize fuel mileage. They annoy me to and make Hybrids look like they are slow. They aren't.

The battery pack, as well as all other Hybrid-unique parts in the Escape is covered by an 80,000 mile warranty from the manufacturer. In my state it is 10 years or 150,000 miles. I am HOPING the batteries die before the warranty expires.

I did pay more for the Hybrid compared to a regular Escape. At $2.50 a gallon it will take about 3.5 to 4 years to break even in gas savings. That is without factoring in the tax incentives. You don't buy one of these to save money on gas. I think the technology is here to stay and they can only get better.

Not trying to convince anyone that a hybrid is for them. I like mine, like the fuel efficiency and the environmental aspect of them. Call me goofy but when I go 500+ miles on a 15 gallon tank, it makes paying $3.00 a gallon a little less unpleasant. To each their own...

 

real green machines are the cheap low end products from the car manufacturers, $15k or less-used as price leaders to drag buyers onto the lot, benign straight 4 banger with manual tranny....many get approx 40 mpg highway and 30+ city and will last 150k with maint.
several of the quality manuf.'s are in this part of the market with high quality cars long lasting cars...but who is going to put $2k into an engine rebuild or $3k into an auto tranny rebuild on a 10 year old hi mileage econo box that only has a market value of half that...the throw away recycle car.
the short term resale value of these current crossbreed hybrids has not been proven...who is willing to take on a 5 year old hybrid w 75k miles that may have $10k in repairs setting under the body. the auto manuf.s only have to make parts avail for 7 years...we already deal with horror storys of parts availablity on many imports...many hybrid parts will remain dealer only because of low model production and rapidly changing technology.
finding competent service on a hybrid outside of the major metro areas will not be easy...take that hybrid to Mexico and break down in a little fishing vill on the Baja Coast....no comprende

or on vacation as Chevy used to say....See the USA....break down in west Texas or eastern Montana or northern Idaho or southern Oregon coast or in the mountains of W. Virginia...I've dealt with some of those gomer mechanics and roadhook vultures....the only reason they graduated from high school was that they were finally taught how to put on a football helmet after 12 years

 

What your missing is that the Ford Escape Hybrid is not a low end product, nor is it a tiny econo car. It is exactly the same as the regular Escape only with a different drive train. I took a chance on a hybrid (yes, I will admit that I am in uncharted waters) because I liked the '04 I had so much, except for the horrendous gas mileage. I fully expect my Escapes to last 150k because I bought from a manufacturer I trust. If it breaks before 150k, it will still be under warranty.

As far as resale value, that's a wildcard with any purchase. What's resale value on a $40k Expedition with gas over $3 a gallon. What will anything be worth in the future? I am not planning on selling mine so resale value is unimportant.

As far as taking it on vacation, I don't worry about that either. I would venture a guess that there is a Ford dealer in all the places you mentioned. It is no different than breaking down in any vehicle - it breaks, you get it fixed. I doubt I would travel to Baja so that isn't an issue.

I bough this car as a commuter vehicle that is big enough to carry my family and/or all the equipment I need for work. It also gets damned good gas mileage. You aren't impressed by them, and you have the right to your opinion. I would assume you have never driven one, right? I own two of them and think they are great. I also think they are the future - like it or not.

 

this is an open forum..differing opinions are what it's all about.

 

I sure hope that spanking and flaming wasn't directed at me.....both of my posts in this thread were very specific that I was stating my opinion and trying to change nobody's opinion. Just giving my perspective as an owner of a Hybrid.

 

the hybrids are a technological gimmick crutch that will get us to the next type of passenger transportation vehicles and systems.
dragging around a 500 lb battery is not my concept of future fuel efficient vehicles.

 

Agree or disagree, this guy drives one and it is great to get first hand info. Thank you, Sir for the data. That prius is funny looking though. I still wonder if he ever got to the top of the hill.

Ken

 

someone had to buy the first Model T off Henry J's inovative mass production assemble line to prove that the masses had a right to drive on America's roads also
fuel prices will never affect the rich. usually have several accounting tax firms and tax attorneys to fill out their 1040 and all the deductions.
many attorneys, architects and other professionals including doctors deduct their vehicle and fuel useage as "business" expenses. most flying first class find a "valid" tax loophole to deduct flight costs.
I saw several new F350 TPS V8 diesels on vacation this summer pulling 5th wheels, campers, boats, etc with painted business adv. on the sides of the PU.

 

I think hybrids are very questionable technology, I am not sure they would exist if the fed didn't have the $2,000 tax write off when you buy one. I do not care to be taxed on stuff I buy to give to people to buy any product. If the product is good, you do not have to pay people to buy it. With the best of intentions (?), the government screws up everything it touches.

I remember reading in Car & Driver that a ton of batteries stores the same energy as 1 qt of gasoline.

Ken

 

of course not. just a general spanking/flaming to illustrate the difference of opinion. always a good thing. of course, we welcome first hand experience as well.
sorry if you took it as a personal attack, it wasn't ever meant that way. and I would be the last person who would try to shoot down someone's opinion.

 

Hi Nitramjr:

I don't think anyone here meant it as a flame or spanking. They are just debating the advantages/disadvantages of hybrid cars. I hope you don't take it personally. I, for one, am glad that you are sharing your experience of owning a hybrid car with us. I have to admit I'm somewhat apprehensive about these cars when the battery technology hasn't improved much over the years. Like Aerocolorado pointed out, we have problems enough with the batteries in our cell phones and laptops. I'm just afraid that as the battery degrades, the car will have to rely more and more on the gas engine to charge it, and pretty soon the advantage will disappear.

I have a Dell laptop that's only two years old. The battery used to last me about 1 hour on a full charge. That time is cut in half now, after only two years. I am afraid a hybrid's battery will do the same thing and that will be bad news.

Regards

 

I think the battery technology has been proven, and proven extensively. IT is a spinoff of the hi tech batteries found in todays cell phones. NiMH when used in conjuction with a controlled carger circuit to prevent over charges, are good for a minimum of 10,000 deep charge cycles, or about 13 years of useing the car to drive to and from work 365 days a year for 13 years. And regualr use isn't even a full cycle, a full cycle is nearly draining the battery, and then fully chargeing it. NiMH batteries do not degrade. You Dell Laptop does not use NiMH batteries. It is probably useing NiCD battering, or nickel cadmium that uses no metal hydrides. It may also be Lithium Ion, or Li-Ion which does gradually degrade, but not by much, and they are good for at least 5,000 deep charge cycles. So in short, a Hybrids battery will not do the same thing.