It could well be a loose wire connection in a plug. I had that problem on a '92. It was an absolute bear to find it. Never threw any codes. Took me around 8 months and I replaced the coil pack and ignition module in the process. Every time I would think I had it, it would show up intermittantly again. Finally turned out being a loose wire in the connector to the ignition module. If yours is similar, it may have to get worse before you can find it, unless you're very lucky.

 

I'll definately keep you posted - I appreciate the help. It's tough to diagnose a problem when you have the car in front of you. Over the internet it's almost impossible unless someone has the same vehicle and the same problem.

 

Jim - wow - do those who reply actually read your posts? Why would it be a bad battery or starter if the turck is cranking? Come on guys - read the posts! We are trying to help here not make people spin their wheels.

Basics. We need to go back to basics. 3 components make a motor run -I can still hear my high school auto shop teacher, Mr. Borreco, Air, Fuel, Spark! Need all three to go. Not 2 of one and 1 of one a none of the last - 1 of all three.

Now since it's really hard to not get air into a motor - like someone stuffed a loaf of bread into your intake, I'll assume air is plentiful. The other 2 you need to check. Now since this is intermitent, it could be tough to find.

Fuel - why would the PCM not send fuel? Only if it didn't know the engine was cranking. So no RPM signal from the crankshaft position sensor. Since it starts after a while, I assume the fuel pump is OK.

Spark - a little more complicated but I like Jerry's approach. The ignition control module is in front of the battery on my 93 - maybe same for you. Try a jiggle test. Jiggle the connector and have wiffy try to start it. See what happens.

This wont be fun since it is intermittnet. Next time it does it just once, tell the wife to stop so you can get to it and try a jiggle connection test. If you can immediately get it to start, you know where your problem is.

 

One minor disagreement with Jharger (which is rare)

You MAY know where the problem is. You'll have to look for repeatability. The problem with intermittent failure is that your action may correct it, or some foriegn perterbation may correct it that you have no knowledge of. That is what makes these problems a pain in the posterior.

 

The dealer is going to give it back to me tommorrow. They have been unable to duplicate the problem but have checked.

All filters - good
Fuel pressure from pump - good
Coils - good
Cam pos sensor - good
Battery and charging system - good
Sprak plug wires and plugs - good
ECM - good

The next time it happens I'll see if wiggling the wires at the ECM does the trick. I asked the dealer if throwing a Cam Pos Sensor at it would make sense since the truck is 7 years old. He said they tested it and it was good. So I'm pretty much back to square 1 - waiting for it to happen again.

My wife thinks i'm sabatoging her ride because I want a new Mustang, but really that's not it. The explorer is paid off and she only drives it about 150 miles a month. But I do like the new Mustangs.

 

I am waiting for the Shelby Mustang to come out next year. 450 HP, 351 supercharged...ARR, ARR, ARR! I'll have to sell the kids to pay for it but oh well.

Jerry - you don't think that if wiggling the connector at the ICM get's it to start right away that it's not a bad connection there? This is what I meant.

And Jim, we are talking about the ICM - ignition control module. Not the ECM or engine control module, AKA PCM powertrain control module, AKA the car's computer. Funny too that the dealer checked the ECM and said it was good. I don't know how they can check it or what they test to actually qualify i as good. It's just a computer - just like the one we are using with this post. Only set up a with different software.

I don't know why the dealer even cared about the cam position snesor. It's obvious they don't know how the car works. The cam sensor has no play into starting a car. It only conditions the spark signal once the car is started and the PCM gets a RPM signal. It is the crank position sensor that feeds the ICM to get an inital spark. This is why Jerry and I believe you should start there. The crank sensor itself is prety robust and doesn't usually fail. But it could have a bad connection on the sensor itself too - just like the other end on the ICM.

Go to this web page to learn up more on Ford EFI systems. http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/

 

Yes, that is what I meant. Unfortunatly, when you're under the hood, you can and will move things that you are not aware of. Things can also move as a result of thermal expansion and contraction. I speak from experience when I say that the one you move, and it starts, may not be the problem child. I thought that I had mine narrowed down a few times, before I actually found it. However, if you move one and it works, then later you move the same one and it works, and so on and so on (that's what I meant be repeatability) then you've probably got the right one. Like I said, intermittent problems are not fun.

As to the 450 HP supercharged 351 Shelby Pony car, good luck to you getting it. We all need a Tim Taylor moment now and again. I went the cheap route with a 90 GT Foxbody Ragtop Mustang. Kept it stock, but the wife still isn't fond of it. Other than the sticker though, the new ponys are SWEEEEET.

 

Thanks guys,
Now I'm really confused. ICM, ECM, PCP, IRS, TGIF. Too many acronyms.... j/k. I need to talk to the dealer in person and have him show me where he's been and what he's done. I had a hell of a day at work today and just didn't feel like going by there. I will go see him tomorrow and see what is up.

Seriously though, everthing I know about the electronics on these cars will fit on the head of a pin. I have to go by what the dealer is telling me. Right now they cannot duplicate the problem. When i get the paperwork in my hand with what they checked I'll post it so maybe we can figure it out.

 

Good luck with the dealer. Usually all you get is "can not duplicate the problem, operation normal at this time." BTW, is the dealer the one on PCP?

Go to this web page and look around. You'll learn lots on Ford EFI systems and they even have a list of acronyms for you.

http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/

 

[QUOTE=Jharger]Good luck with the dealer. Usually all you get is "can not duplicate the problem, operation normal at this time." BTW, is the dealer the one on PCP?

Go to this web page and look around. You'll learn lots on Ford EFI systems and they even have a list of acronyms for you.

http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/[/QUOTE]

I'm glad someone caught my tounge in cheek response there. You're right I'm going to pick it up in the morning. The final verdict is that they could not duplicate. When I have the paperwork with all of the stuff they tried I'll post it here so that I can get some help. I really don't want the Explorer to leave my wife stranded somewhere. Thanks for the link - I'll look at it tonight.

 

Did you ever figure out what was wrong?

Steve

 

After 3 weeks at the dealer - they could not duplicate the problem. However the Explorer has started everytime without a hitch since we got it back. Maybe while they were wiggling wires and hooking up diag equipment they inadvertantly fixed a loose wire or plug.

Who knows.

BTW - I tried to answer your email nad your profile is set up not to receive. Didn't want you to think I ignored you.

 

Thanks for the reply. After reading through alot of other threads, it appears the EEC relay might be the problem. It's in the distribution box under the hood supposedly. Very cheap...could be cheap insurance. Mine is a 2000. I'll post more detail after I replace it.
Steve

 

Ok - I wanted to get back to everyone that tried to help me on this. I got the
Explorer back from the dealer and it's been about 6 weeks. The dealer could not duplicate the problem, but We've had 0 problems since it came back. I think that while they were under the hood doing wiggle tests on the connectors they fixed a conection that may have been loose. That is the only thing I can think of.

Again thanks to everyone that gave a little time on this,
Jim

 

Glad to hear your truck is running good again.