Hello!

I am in search of any kind of information that you guys can point me to about a 1948 Ford F1 pickup. A group of students (including myself) at a university have been given the senior design project to swap a 1948 Ford F1 onto a modern frame and suspension over the next year. We are looking for dimensions, history, anything. We have a 2001 Nissan Frontier 4wd frame already, and want to use it, but as of right now we can't afford to convert the front suspension to a 2wd. I have heard that you can use Chevy S10 or Ranger frames under these, is that true? We are looking to channel the body to help lower the truck some more, because its application will be a street rod. We are looking for someone to donate a rollover vehicle RWD so we can do some more reverse engineering to upgrade the truck to fuel injection.

Like I said, any information would be greatly appreciated.
Also, just to confirm I am a Ford Enthusiast, I own a 98 F150 4x4!

Thank you!! Please help!!
Scott

 

Scott

Send me an email to: rctree @ netzero.com (remove the spaces)

 

Design in what field is this project for, what school?
If you search on frame swaps, you'll find a lot of info, mostly of the "problems to be resolved" and "don't do it, it's a lot harder than it sounds" themes.

 

The goal of the project is to do a systems analysis, material selection analysis for the vehicles, and find a way to integrate the old with the new. It's basically a common garage project, but to make it a legitimate senior design project, we have to do a lot of research, testing, and presentations. It is for Western Michigan University, Manufacturing Engineering Technology Automotive Option, and Engineering Graphics Technology programs.

 

OK, why not build a new frame using more modern components than try to adapt a frame from another vehicle? Frame swaps, although simple in concept are VERY difficult in execution, MUCH more difficult, time consuming and expensive than building a compatable frame from scratch. The scratch frame would also more than likely fit better with the course project requirements as well.

PS: I don't know anything about your fabrication skills, available equipment, finances, etc., but I think you have jumped into something that even an experienced builder with full funds would have trouble accomplishing in one year, despite what you see on TV.

 

48-54 Chevy trucks on S-10 frames is well documented elsewhere and more common than Ford pickup to S-10 frame swaps. One, however, does not imply that the swaps are the same for each type. Different situations arise for each application.
A reasonable starting point would be to research the archives here and pretty much find what AX described. As this is a design project a certain benefit would fall to us if you were to document and resolve problems encountered. Naturally we would like to help you come up with solutions. At this point it seems like you might want to do some more research and planning as I am guessing this is a low budget effort. When you have the parts in hand and a clear plan it will be easier to answer your questions.

helpfully, himmelberg

 

Yes, we are in the very beginning stages of the process. We are still at the "on paper" stage. I merely wanted to see what I kind find out from a board like this. I would love to fabricate a new frame, but budget and availability of equipment is the limiting factor. We kind of have to make things work with what we got. Rest asure there will be plenty of pictures, and the process will surely be documented. And no, none of us are experienced frame fabricators, we have to learn the hard way.

Thanks for advice!
Scott

 

If you do not have the equipment or experience to build a frame, you're in deep trouble on doing a frame swap instead. Like I said previously it is a far bigger, more complex, difficult, expensive job to modify an existing frame to fit than it is to build one from scratch. Building with what's on hand by inexperienced/overwelmed first time builders is what puts a lot of abandoned projects into the crusher. I think that's the major fault with shows such as Overhaulin and American Hotrod, they gloss over the actual work involved and concentrate on the "drama" giving the viewers an unrealistic perspective. Did you know that on Overhaulin for example there are 20-30 OTHER highly skilled people that you don't see on camera working on the cars (they work 24hrs a day for a week, calculate that in man hours then triple it for your inexperience then double that for relative complexity, divide that by how many people you'll have and how many hours a week you can realistically dedicate to working on your truck to see what you are in for, If this is a senior project I hope you all are freshmen!), and that the owners don't actually drive their vehicles home at the end of the week but they are returned to another off camera shop for about a month to "fix and finish" what was done in a rush on camera. Notice they don't actually drive them anywhere? The camera doesn't "see" all the flaws and unfinished work. Even with their nearly unlimited resources you'll never see them tackle anything as complex as a frame swap on that show, most everything they do is just cosmetics and bolt ons. Foose's 05 Riddler award winner took 3 YEARS to build. I'd suggest you think long and hard if your real goal is to end up with a "cool" hotrod and decide on a simpler project like building a 10 story office building. Not trying to be harsh just speaking from experience!

 

Scott, I have been involved with a group of adult mentors at a local high school for the last 15 years or so. Our goal is to "restore" a car for the Detroit Autorama beginning in September for the February show. Most years we succeed and have many trophies to our credit. Previous comments on this thread are right on the mark. This is a very large, complex, expensive task. As an example, ballpark numbers are $15,000 to $18,000 for parts and materials at rock bottom discount prices to mechanically and cosmetically restore a mid sixties muscle car to decent condition. (note no labor costs in these numbers).You could do your project for less if you limited the project to the bare mechanicals-building a rolling chassis with the unpainted body attached. First thing is to determine your budget and who is paying for it. Search FTE and read up on front clips, rear axle swaps, and John Niolon's excellent article on planning. Once you have a plan, beat the bushes by contacting anyone you can think of for parts, donor vehicles, tools or anything else you need. The public is very willing to participate. You may also ask for help from "experts" weldors, fabricators, mechaincs, painters(if you get that far the first year). Search to hot rod mags for ads on frame and suspension parts and kits. Call them, explain your plan and ask for help. You may be surprised at what they suggest or offer. An unsolicited observation: 48 Ford cabs are small enough without the space lost to a channel job. There are better ways to get it low, especially with a major frame project planned anyway. Keep in touch with progress reports and requests for more info or advice. Good luck sounds like a worth while project.

 

Thanks a lot. Luckily we have a really nice truck to start with, I almost hate to rip it up. I understand the complications involved, and the cost factor. As of right now, a rolling chassis is the main goal. Thats what we will be responsible for. I will speak to my professor about the availability of funds, he has done one in the past, so that is where our experience will come from. And yes, I am quite amazed by what manufacturers are willing to donate to us.

 

Now that would be a sweet conversion - use the running gear out of your 4X4 under the 48. Upgrade the 48 to almost current standards!


Seriously, a Ford 9 inch with leaf springs is the standard rear end for most conversions - face it, rear leaf springs have been used for better than 70 years, why change it now?

If you use something like the 9 inch for the rear, there is no reason to change the frame. I like the ford twin I Beam front, so I would just cut the old frame near the front cab mounts and weld in the front end off any of a number of Ford pickups.

Several people on here have done this and tell me that the tires wind up within an inch of their original location. It is a quick and easy way to add power steering and power disk brakes too.

The real problem you face is "over enginneering" your project, and spending more time and money than you have.

 

I like that idea. Does the 48 truck have a 9 inch? We don't have it in the shop yet to look at...So I am unaware. I have a 9 inch leaf spring set up in a truck that I drag race. I would certainly rather do that, and then focus my time upgrading the drivetrain and electrical.

 

Scott
From the Tech Article Section: https://www.ford-trucks.com/article/

A lot of your home work is there.

(I feel like I'm giving you a "Crib Sheet")

 

It sounds like a nice project but I tend to agree with others in that a one year project seems a little optimistic, not saying it couldn't be done but it would be quite a challenge and require a lot of man-hours, space and resources.

In adding to an earlier statement made concerning the twin-I-beam width, I know the tract width on the mid-seventies trucks, up front, were 2-3" wider than the 53-56 tract width and the 48 series trucks, I believe, are even narrower than they were. So to have the tires finish within one inch of the original location might not be entirely accurate without other frame modifications. I know some correction is possible with the use of positive offset rims, but I don't think 2-3 inches is possible without going to larger diameter rims which would allow for clearance of the tie rod ends next to the spindles.

Good luck!

 

OK, I used the search function and found what I remembered - it was a 78 frame clip under a 57 pickup. I have no recent experance with trucks older than that. The point is that you can do a lot while using most of the stock frame and avoid the problems of a frame swap.

And if you did mount a different front frame clip, wouldn't you also use the steering knuckles, tie rod ends, and sector from the donnor truck?