I've already beat this subject pretty good over at the fordsix board so I apologize in advance for the redundancy. Any way, what experience does anyone have with the Cloyes course steel timing gears on their i6? I just installed a Crane H-260-2 and it whines/howls like nobodies business. I got a number of interesting and somewhat conflicting responses from Cloyes and from fordsix, but what I'm really looking for is some specific experiences with a 'roll pin oiler' and using laminate timing gears with the Crane H-260-2 or similar cam.

1) Has anyone installed a roll pin oiler to maximize timing gear lubrication? Apparently, there is a 1/8" hole at the ffice:smarttags" />3:00</FONT> position just outside of the perimeter of the cam gear that allows oil to flow into the timing cover. The instructions for the roll pin oiler are to drive a 1/8" x 1/2" roll pin into this hole so that the oil flows directly onto the cam gear instead of dribbling down the face of the block. However, before I take this route, I'd like to know how well it might work in reducing gear noise. I don't want to spend the time it takes to get into and out of the timing cover for only a marginal improvement, which brings me to item 2)

2) How risky would it be to go back to laminate gears with the Crane H-260? The valve lift is .458/.487 with 1.61 rocker ratio. I’m hoping that since the harsh conditions of the cam run in are over that a new laminate gear set will stand up to this cam. Cloyes seemed a little uneasy with this idea. None-the-less, I’m leaning heavily towards this option. Also, could a broken laminate timing gear tooth lead to catastrophic engine damage, and who makes the toughest laminate gears? Going back in to change a timing gear after 50k miles is worth getting rid of this noise.

One way or another, I have to get rid of the noise, or at least rule out that it is even timing gear noise to start with. My neighbor, who runs a garage, thinks that I wiped out a cam bearing during the cam installation (I sure would like to rule that out). I can’t hear the rest of the motor to tell how it’s running. I think I’m getting a little knock but I can’t hear it over the gears. And, I think I’m getting some lifter noise, but I can’t tell for sure over the gear noise either (I may want to go back it or shim the rockers a little…pre-load was between 0.050 and 0.060).

Any insight will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

well those clyoes gears will howl , that is part of them thats how they got the name "noisy gear drive" lots of people like the noise.

 

Anyone?

Any experience with the roll pin oiler or a fiber cam gear on an RV cam?

 

i ran the stock fiber gear with the same cam on my old 300 for approx 15,000 miles with no problems.

are the cloyes gears stright cut? if so then theres ur problem. i picked up a set of steel timing gears for the new (junkyard) 300, which i used the same cam (new of course) and swapped the old cam/gears out for the new cam/steelies before i dropped the motor in my truck.

i went to advance auto and ordered a set of steel timing gears for a 1979 F-150. cost me around $35 and they are as silent as the fiber gears. i only went with the steel ones because i figured i would break (which i did) the fiber gears removing the old cam, plus i heeded strangerangers advice. makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside now i have them and wont have to worry bout the gears failing me in 100,000 miles.

i hope it isnt a cam bearing, those are *******s to replace. especially on a long block engine like a inline 6.

 

The Cloyes timing gears I have are angle cut...just like the fiber ones I suspose.

Who makes the Advance Auto steel timing gears (I'll look on line)? I don't understand how they would be quiet an the Cloyes would be loud. Wouldn't they all be the same size?

PS,
As i'm dialing in on my ignition timing, the gears are getting quieter. i wonder if there's a reason for that or if the gears just running in. I'm also thinking less and less that it's the bearings. I'm going to try to figure out my actual oil pressure this weekend. That may shed some light on things.

Thanks

 

Just got done replacing the steel Cloyes timing gears with a set of Cloyes fiber. Whine and knocking are gone. A quick inspection of the cam gear revealed the problem. One side of the gear was ground to a differnt diameter than the other and there was a ridge right down the center all the way around. I could only guess at the size of the defect, but you can feel that one side is bigger than the other and you can see the ridge going around the center. There is no corresponding damage or marks on the crank gear which leads me to suspect that these gears came with this defect. I'll post a pic this weekend and let you all know what Cloyes has to say about it.

Thanks

 

glad u got it fixed and ill be awaiting a pic...dont forget!!!

 

Was all this trouble worth the cam swap, more specifically, the use of the cam you selected?

 

Hard to say. I learned a lot in the process that may help with future up grades. Any bigger of a cam would have required new springs, more work, and more expertise that I do not have. But I get what you're getting at. For all the work, a bigger cam change would have been great. In short two unexpected things made this progect difficult: the problems with getting the grill off, and having to go in twice to get the timing gear mystery straightened out. Everything else was just background noise (fan removal, lifter pre-load, ignition timing) A little more experience could have prevented all of these problems. If I had to change the cam again, I could do it in a fraction of the time.

I'm already starting introduce my wife to the idea of building up a 351 in the garage over the winter...I hear it will fit.

Randy

 

I think what your saying is, for the out of pocket and time spent vs your new found power, you'd gladly take it all back and put that money to better use.

Did you raise the engine or drop the bumper? I have heard both methods mentioned here.

My crane 260/272 is in the mail, anyone want a good deal on this camshaft?

Yeah, I am serious.


I will warn ya wik, going to a v-8, you will miss the low end feel of the six and unless you add some goodies to the 351w, eventually you'll think it sux too, trust me. However, you will see what life is like above 2500 rpm...haha

 

I wouldn't say that I'd take it all back. I'm kind of stubborn like that. In fact, now that I’ve had an introduction to camshaft work, it would bother me to own a truck with a stock cam. Just me. An economical person would probably agree that the cost of the new power was high for what I went through. I'll bet an experienced mechanic could get in and out of there fast, which would change the economics significantly. Cost of materials and services was maybe a little more than $325 and that’s only because I bought two sets of timing gears and timing cover gaskets.

I haven’t had a chance to really run this cam yet, and I sold my boat, so now I gotta go find something to drag around…something always pops up. Hopefully, that’s where I’ll see the payoff, which is also a big part of the reason that I chose this cam…I want this to be a work truck.

<OIf you’re confident that you can get through the work more efficiently than I did and you don’t mind loosing a little more low end, maybe go for a bigger cam. I think there’s a member that put in the isky 268 who’s real happy with it.

<OI have some 25-60mph 3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear acceleration times from pre-cam. As soon as I get a chance, I do it again post-cam. Pre cam time average was 10.25 sec.

 

I checked into the comp 268 and saw what they were getting for idle vacuum and I don't think I wanna try that one. I would imagine the isky 268 would be simillar, that and isky told me, don't do it. I would imagine it would run okay with slight surging, not to be confused with lope but I don't wanna screw around with it right now, like to keep it simple.


I flipped back through the old posts, optikal illusion spoke of the crane 260/272, mentioned it woke the old six up big time, your lack of enthusiasm has me wondering.

 

[QUOTE=Motorhead351]...
Did you raise the engine or drop the bumper? I have heard both methods mentioned here.

I removed all the plastic grill work...real pain in the butt. Took hours. I got my neighbor who's a 'professional' mechanic to help me on that. I called him back over to re-install it. By the time he got it back on, I had re-installed the valve cover, the upper intake, and re-ran all the vacuum lines.


Just sort of thinking out loud on that. It'd be a departure from the work truck idea. I'd build it up the best I could on a budget. Will a Cleveland fit?

 

Anything will fit, think big block, you know it will work with OE parts, they came in the f-250/350, just a matter of making it happen.

 

So you didn't raise the engine or remove the bumper?

You removed the radiator support or just the plastic crap?