93 Explorer Rough Engine Problem
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From: Phoenix
Reread and you do have the O2 connectors swapped backwards. Red/black is bank 2 which is drivers side. Bank one is passenger since cylinder 1 is passenger front. Flip the leads, clear the computer scodes and have a nice warm rest of the winter indoors.
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Junior User
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I swapped the connectors, but the engine still stalls. I did reset computer, but now the engine runs 15-20 seconds very smoothly and abruptly dies. After restarting engine several times to warm up, I pulled codes and engine off test passed, no codes. I can't get through a engine running test to see if anything shows up since engine stalls before test gets to far. Not sure where to go from here.
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From: Phoenix
412 - idle speed system not controlling idle properly, generally too low RPM. No kidding huh? Must be the high tech description for a stalling engine.
538 - did not do "goose test". No big deal. This is where at the end of the KOER test, you have to option of goosing the throttle and the PCM will run a cyclinder balance test. shuts off one cylinder at a time and looks for an even RPM drop. It will tell if one cylinder is not contributing to power.
Might want to start looking at the IAC valve.
538 - did not do "goose test". No big deal. This is where at the end of the KOER test, you have to option of goosing the throttle and the PCM will run a cyclinder balance test. shuts off one cylinder at a time and looks for an even RPM drop. It will tell if one cylinder is not contributing to power.
Might want to start looking at the IAC valve.
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I checked the usual sensors as before this weekend. The MAF and IAC and TPS all checked good following the resistance and voltage checks in my mx manual. However, the IAC could be intermittant. When I advanced throttle, though, the engine would gasp and try to die right away, so don't know how IAC would fit into that part. Letting go of throttle, it would sometimes recover until it abruptly died again.
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From: Phoenix
Dave - I tried calling a couple times but got no answer. It's hard to tell based on your post exactly what's going on. If you no longer have any O2 codes, I think your swapping the leads left/right cured that issue. It sounds like this problem now happens when the engine is either cold or hot, right? If it's not temperature related, the intake air temp and coolant temp sensors are probably OK.
I almost wonder if you have a bad Cat. When they get bad the honey combs break up and get turned sideways - move all around in there. Sometimes exhaust flows by and it runs, sometimes no flow and engine dies. It's a simple test to unbolt the 3 bolts at the front of the Cat and run it open, no muffler. Neighbors wont like it but for 30 seconds to see if it runs, I'd try that.
I almost wonder if you have a bad Cat. When they get bad the honey combs break up and get turned sideways - move all around in there. Sometimes exhaust flows by and it runs, sometimes no flow and engine dies. It's a simple test to unbolt the 3 bolts at the front of the Cat and run it open, no muffler. Neighbors wont like it but for 30 seconds to see if it runs, I'd try that.
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I cranked up auto yesterday after getting home from work. Ran running test, but started before the engine was warmed up sufficiently. Got a 116 and something else I don't rememeber. Stopped and ran static test. Got a 211. Cleared codes and reran static and got nothing. Ran engine till warm, engine continued to act as before not abruptly dieing but oscillating and dieing occationally. Ran running test but engine had tough time getting through. Got a 538 and a 137. Ran a static and got a 159.
This is the first time I've seen a 211.
I'll look at cat but it'll have to wait a couple of days. Thanks for your help.
This is the first time I've seen a 211.
I'll look at cat but it'll have to wait a couple of days. Thanks for your help.
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From: Phoenix
116 and 112 are probably due to the engine being cold when you ran the test. Deals with engine coolant temp and intake air temp. Like I said before, sicne the poor engine performance happens when cold or warm, these two sensors are probably not part of the problem. I could be wrong but since you don't get codes for them when it's warm, they are probably OK.
159 is weird. If the engine is not running, how can the MAF send any voltage back to the PCM?
538 lends to test operator eror so I'll let you figure out what happened during the test.
Do you still have your old PCM? I wonder what would happen if you swaped that in. Now that you are getting a mutlitude of unrelated codes, I wonder if your "new" PCM may be bad. I suggested the CAT since it's mechanical in nature and no feedback to the PCM. Yesterday, you had no mention of any further codes so I thoguth the controls system was not the problem...maybe it still is.
159 is weird. If the engine is not running, how can the MAF send any voltage back to the PCM?
538 lends to test operator eror so I'll let you figure out what happened during the test.
Do you still have your old PCM? I wonder what would happen if you swaped that in. Now that you are getting a mutlitude of unrelated codes, I wonder if your "new" PCM may be bad. I suggested the CAT since it's mechanical in nature and no feedback to the PCM. Yesterday, you had no mention of any further codes so I thoguth the controls system was not the problem...maybe it still is.
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I certainly baffled. I don't have the old pcm, it was pretty much dead anyway. Would like to put a known good one in just to see, though. I tapped several of the sensors but noted no reaction. Opening throttle, pretty much kills engine.? What about the 211?
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From: Phoenix
sorry I meant 211, not 112 - typo. I looked up the wrong code. 211 is missing PIP signal. Profile ignition pick up is the spark signal the ignition control module sends to the PCM. It tells the PCM the basic spark timing from the crank sensor. The PCM then uses this timing signal, the cam position sensor signal (if so equiped), engine RPM, engine temp, engine load, and sends SPOUT - spark output - to the ignition control module. it is this SPOUT signal that the ICM uses to fire the coils.
Sometime, when a PIP missing is sensed, it is associated with a misfire - bad plugs/wires... I think you already changed your crank sensor right? next thing is the basic plugs/wires then maybe the ICM itself. it makes sense to get this code since the engine dies when you hit the throttle. But it me be getting generated in response to the engine stalling and no actually causing the enging to stall.
Sorry, my spare PCM wont work on your car since I've got SFI and you have MFI.
Sometime, when a PIP missing is sensed, it is associated with a misfire - bad plugs/wires... I think you already changed your crank sensor right? next thing is the basic plugs/wires then maybe the ICM itself. it makes sense to get this code since the engine dies when you hit the throttle. But it me be getting generated in response to the engine stalling and no actually causing the enging to stall.
Sorry, my spare PCM wont work on your car since I've got SFI and you have MFI.
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Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Cedar Rapids, IA
Have you ever replace the spark plugs and spark plug wires? How about the fuel filter? Have you checked the air filter? These common maintenance items, if not replaced regularly, can certainly cause the engine to run roughly with a lack of power. I'd certainly suggest checking and/or replacing all of these before getting too worried about the oxygen sensors. For as poorly as it sounds like your engine is running, O2 sensors are not likely to be the main culprit.
-Rod
-Rod
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