automatic tranny trouble please help!
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automatic tranny trouble please help!
my friend has a 1979 f-150 shortbed 4x4 truck with a automatic C-6 tranny in it. He got the truck on the road andnow the tranny is giving him troubles... When its in park you pull it down to revirse it goes right into revirse. Then you pull it down one more it goes into netural like normal. Then you pull it down into gear or 1 or 2 it takes a while sometiems up to 5minutes before it actualy catches in gear and starts going. If you let ti coast back any it dotn help if you rev it it dont help. Can not figure out what is happening. This happeend before we changed tranny fluid and filters. So we changed the filters and the fluid. It still does the same problem. Does anyoen know how we can get this problem fixed?
thanks,
Jimmy
thanks,
Jimmy
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 3
From: So Cal
Tell us more about what you saw when you changed the fluid and filter.
How long has it been doing this? Was it something sudden or slowly happening over time? How many miles on the tranny since last rebuild? Is this a tranny swap or something? Sounds like the truck wasn't on the road until recently, why?
Sounds like your tranny is worn out or has a sticky valve body or weak pump, but we need to know more.
Your post is kind of confusing. Tell us in more detail what was going on before and after the change.
Jim Henderson
How long has it been doing this? Was it something sudden or slowly happening over time? How many miles on the tranny since last rebuild? Is this a tranny swap or something? Sounds like the truck wasn't on the road until recently, why?
Sounds like your tranny is worn out or has a sticky valve body or weak pump, but we need to know more.
Your post is kind of confusing. Tell us in more detail what was going on before and after the change.
Jim Henderson
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Hey Guys
This is my tranny that we are talking about...i had my friend post it for me when my computer was messed up.
First id like to add that in the mornings when i start the truck for the first time and put it into drive it goes in fine.....But it seems like once the fluid gets warm after running it....the next time you go to shift into drive it wont go.....but at any time reverse will go right in no problem
The tranny never gave me problems before until..... One day when i was driving it i pulled into the parts store to pick up some stuff as i went to leave i proceed to put the truck in drive and it just sat there like it was in neutral. Well i thought i didnt pull the shifter down far enough. So i put the shifter back into park and then back to drive and it kicked in gear and i drove off. At this point i didnt think much of it at all, until it started to do it more often, it wouldnt go into drive at all..and sometimes to get it to work i put it down in 1st and it kicks in gear and goes and i can shift it to drive once im moving. After about 3 days of this i crawled under the truck to look for play in the linkage, and there wasnt any. So i asked around, and someone told me to change the tranny filter and fluid. So when i changed the fluid i noticed that the fluid was a very dull maroon but almost purple looking in color. I changed the tranny filter inside the tranny and i also changed the inline tranny filter that the previous owner had put in before me which was pretty much clogged up.
The next day i drove it up to my friends and i still had the same problem....and it almost seemed like it started to get worse, meaning it would take more time to get it to go into drive...sometimes if i go into reverse then quickly into drive it will work but other times it wont. So then i added some of that Lucas Transmission Treatment to my tranny....But i still have the same problem....
The tranny that i know of has never been rebuilt...And the truck sat for about 6 months since it was last moved around due to no money...im hopeing that i didnt mess the tranny up by running that crappy fluid threw it.
Is there anyway i can figure out whats goin wrong
This truck is going to become an everyday driver and i need the tranny to be working correctly
Thanks you for any advice given
Erik
This is my tranny that we are talking about...i had my friend post it for me when my computer was messed up.
First id like to add that in the mornings when i start the truck for the first time and put it into drive it goes in fine.....But it seems like once the fluid gets warm after running it....the next time you go to shift into drive it wont go.....but at any time reverse will go right in no problem
The tranny never gave me problems before until..... One day when i was driving it i pulled into the parts store to pick up some stuff as i went to leave i proceed to put the truck in drive and it just sat there like it was in neutral. Well i thought i didnt pull the shifter down far enough. So i put the shifter back into park and then back to drive and it kicked in gear and i drove off. At this point i didnt think much of it at all, until it started to do it more often, it wouldnt go into drive at all..and sometimes to get it to work i put it down in 1st and it kicks in gear and goes and i can shift it to drive once im moving. After about 3 days of this i crawled under the truck to look for play in the linkage, and there wasnt any. So i asked around, and someone told me to change the tranny filter and fluid. So when i changed the fluid i noticed that the fluid was a very dull maroon but almost purple looking in color. I changed the tranny filter inside the tranny and i also changed the inline tranny filter that the previous owner had put in before me which was pretty much clogged up.
The next day i drove it up to my friends and i still had the same problem....and it almost seemed like it started to get worse, meaning it would take more time to get it to go into drive...sometimes if i go into reverse then quickly into drive it will work but other times it wont. So then i added some of that Lucas Transmission Treatment to my tranny....But i still have the same problem....
The tranny that i know of has never been rebuilt...And the truck sat for about 6 months since it was last moved around due to no money...im hopeing that i didnt mess the tranny up by running that crappy fluid threw it.
Is there anyway i can figure out whats goin wrong
This truck is going to become an everyday driver and i need the tranny to be working correctlyThanks you for any advice given
Erik
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
From: Edwards Air Force Base
Sounds like something is either stuck (dirt in a passage so the little ball bearing can't move to allow fluid into the right passage way) or else the tranny fluid pump is dying.
No one else is answering so I am but I am no tranny expert. I seem to recall that the fluid flow is different for reverse than forward gears which is why I say it might be the pump.
Otherwise, like I said, it could just be a piece of dirt stopping the little ball bearing from moving. Auto trannies are very close tolerance units. Basically, the gear shift sets up the stops inside then fluid pressure does the rest. The whole thing is just a set of complex piping with trap doors all over to make the fluid flow in different places. It heads down one way then when the pressure gets high enough, it pushes a ball bearing that has a spring behind it enough so that a new hole is exposed and the fluid can run into that 2nd tube, as pressure builds, it pushes a ball bearing with a spring behind it in that second tube far enough to open a 3rd tube and fluid runs into it.
If I recall correctly, many trannies just have one place for fluid when in reverse and the pump isn't that important. For all forward gears however, there is a while slew of piping and bearings that have to move. This is why I say it is either the pump dying or a piece of dirt.
Dirt by one of those ball bearings will keep it from rolling and thus won't let it move the way it needs to. The tolerance in there are very close so that they can move freely but yet won't let that thin tranny fluid flow past them.
WHile typing this, I just realized that a piece of dirt could also have made a ball bearing stick causing a tube to be open that shouldn't be which would greatly lower the fluid pressure.
Anyway, a long post that doesn't help you much. As to how to fix it???? Not really sure. I don't know if a tranny flush would help or not. Basically you need to find out if there is something stuck in there or not and it won't be big and easy to see. Just the tiniest microscopic grain of dirt can do it. When rebuilding these things, it has to be like a surgeons room and clean as can be.
If it is the pump, I believe you pretty much have to tear the whole thing down just to get to it.
I feel for you. tranny problems are a pain. Hopefully someone that knows more about these might have some tricks up their sleeve.
Good Luck,
Lee
No one else is answering so I am but I am no tranny expert. I seem to recall that the fluid flow is different for reverse than forward gears which is why I say it might be the pump.
Otherwise, like I said, it could just be a piece of dirt stopping the little ball bearing from moving. Auto trannies are very close tolerance units. Basically, the gear shift sets up the stops inside then fluid pressure does the rest. The whole thing is just a set of complex piping with trap doors all over to make the fluid flow in different places. It heads down one way then when the pressure gets high enough, it pushes a ball bearing that has a spring behind it enough so that a new hole is exposed and the fluid can run into that 2nd tube, as pressure builds, it pushes a ball bearing with a spring behind it in that second tube far enough to open a 3rd tube and fluid runs into it.
If I recall correctly, many trannies just have one place for fluid when in reverse and the pump isn't that important. For all forward gears however, there is a while slew of piping and bearings that have to move. This is why I say it is either the pump dying or a piece of dirt.
Dirt by one of those ball bearings will keep it from rolling and thus won't let it move the way it needs to. The tolerance in there are very close so that they can move freely but yet won't let that thin tranny fluid flow past them.
WHile typing this, I just realized that a piece of dirt could also have made a ball bearing stick causing a tube to be open that shouldn't be which would greatly lower the fluid pressure.
Anyway, a long post that doesn't help you much. As to how to fix it???? Not really sure. I don't know if a tranny flush would help or not. Basically you need to find out if there is something stuck in there or not and it won't be big and easy to see. Just the tiniest microscopic grain of dirt can do it. When rebuilding these things, it has to be like a surgeons room and clean as can be.
If it is the pump, I believe you pretty much have to tear the whole thing down just to get to it.
I feel for you. tranny problems are a pain. Hopefully someone that knows more about these might have some tricks up their sleeve.
Good Luck,
Lee
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,982
Likes: 7
From: Somewhere Saskatchewan
Originally Posted by Lee Lichterman
Sounds like something is either stuck (dirt in a passage so the little ball bearing can't move to allow fluid into the right passage way) or else the tranny fluid pump is dying.
No one else is answering so I am but I am no tranny expert. I seem to recall that the fluid flow is different for reverse than forward gears which is why I say it might be the pump.
Otherwise, like I said, it could just be a piece of dirt stopping the little ball bearing from moving. Auto trannies are very close tolerance units. Basically, the gear shift sets up the stops inside then fluid pressure does the rest. The whole thing is just a set of complex piping with trap doors all over to make the fluid flow in different places. It heads down one way then when the pressure gets high enough, it pushes a ball bearing that has a spring behind it enough so that a new hole is exposed and the fluid can run into that 2nd tube, as pressure builds, it pushes a ball bearing with a spring behind it in that second tube far enough to open a 3rd tube and fluid runs into it.
If I recall correctly, many trannies just have one place for fluid when in reverse and the pump isn't that important. For all forward gears however, there is a while slew of piping and bearings that have to move. This is why I say it is either the pump dying or a piece of dirt.
Dirt by one of those ball bearings will keep it from rolling and thus won't let it move the way it needs to. The tolerance in there are very close so that they can move freely but yet won't let that thin tranny fluid flow past them.
WHile typing this, I just realized that a piece of dirt could also have made a ball bearing stick causing a tube to be open that shouldn't be which would greatly lower the fluid pressure.
Anyway, a long post that doesn't help you much. As to how to fix it???? Not really sure. I don't know if a tranny flush would help or not. Basically you need to find out if there is something stuck in there or not and it won't be big and easy to see. Just the tiniest microscopic grain of dirt can do it. When rebuilding these things, it has to be like a surgeons room and clean as can be.
If it is the pump, I believe you pretty much have to tear the whole thing down just to get to it.
I feel for you. tranny problems are a pain. Hopefully someone that knows more about these might have some tricks up their sleeve.
Good Luck,
Lee
No one else is answering so I am but I am no tranny expert. I seem to recall that the fluid flow is different for reverse than forward gears which is why I say it might be the pump.
Otherwise, like I said, it could just be a piece of dirt stopping the little ball bearing from moving. Auto trannies are very close tolerance units. Basically, the gear shift sets up the stops inside then fluid pressure does the rest. The whole thing is just a set of complex piping with trap doors all over to make the fluid flow in different places. It heads down one way then when the pressure gets high enough, it pushes a ball bearing that has a spring behind it enough so that a new hole is exposed and the fluid can run into that 2nd tube, as pressure builds, it pushes a ball bearing with a spring behind it in that second tube far enough to open a 3rd tube and fluid runs into it.
If I recall correctly, many trannies just have one place for fluid when in reverse and the pump isn't that important. For all forward gears however, there is a while slew of piping and bearings that have to move. This is why I say it is either the pump dying or a piece of dirt.
Dirt by one of those ball bearings will keep it from rolling and thus won't let it move the way it needs to. The tolerance in there are very close so that they can move freely but yet won't let that thin tranny fluid flow past them.
WHile typing this, I just realized that a piece of dirt could also have made a ball bearing stick causing a tube to be open that shouldn't be which would greatly lower the fluid pressure.
Anyway, a long post that doesn't help you much. As to how to fix it???? Not really sure. I don't know if a tranny flush would help or not. Basically you need to find out if there is something stuck in there or not and it won't be big and easy to see. Just the tiniest microscopic grain of dirt can do it. When rebuilding these things, it has to be like a surgeons room and clean as can be.
If it is the pump, I believe you pretty much have to tear the whole thing down just to get to it.
I feel for you. tranny problems are a pain. Hopefully someone that knows more about these might have some tricks up their sleeve.
Good Luck,
Lee
A transmission that is 26 years old is bound to have internal seal that have become hard.
If it were the pump all ranges would be affected.
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Joe Kucinski
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
From: Edwards Air Force Base
Originally Posted by stuart1
Lee please do not give advice about something you know little if nothing about.
A transmission that is 26 years old is bound to have internal seal that have become hard.
If it were the pump all ranges would be affected.
A transmission that is 26 years old is bound to have internal seal that have become hard.
If it were the pump all ranges would be affected.
Full moon got your ire up or what? I said at the beginning of my post that I was no expert. I have rebuilt many a transmission though and for his to be working one day and suddenly not sure doesn't sound like a hard seal though anything is possible.
It is "POSSIBLE" that he has a piece of dirt in there. I also said in my post that if it looked like a pump he was looking at a rebuild anyway. Don't start flaming me here "eh".
I was trying to offer possibilities and helping to push him back to the top hoping someone with more knowledge would pipe in. It could be dirt, a leak, bad bands or any number of things. While it is likely a 90% chance of a total rebuild, I know when I was that age, that was the last thing I wanted to hear so the hope was someone with specific knowledge would pipe in as for troubleshooting tips to explore all the options.
A quick web search pulled this up as a troubleshooting tree......
No Forward - Reverse OK
Transmission shift cable broken or misadjusted.
Improper fluid level.
Improper band/clutch application pressure.
Fluid filter damaged or plugged.
Main control assembly gaskets damaged or bolt out of torque.
Main control separator plate damaged.
Pump assembly damaged or leaking.
Forward clutch assembly burnt, damaged, or leaking.
Rear one-way clutch worn/damaged.
Lee
Last edited by Lee Lichterman; Aug 20, 2005 at 12:50 AM.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,982
Likes: 7
From: Somewhere Saskatchewan
My friend I have been doing trasnissions for over 45 years and have built thousands of them.
This is your quote.
" quick web search pulled this up as a troubleshooting tree......
No Forward - Reverse OK
1/ Transmission shift cable broken or misadjusted.
2/ Improper fluid level.
3/ Improper band/clutch application pressure.
4/ Fluid filter damaged or plugged.
5/ Main control assembly gaskets damaged or bolt out of torque.
6/ Main control separator plate damaged.
7/ Pump assembly damaged or leaking.
8/ Forward clutch assembly burnt, damaged, or leaking.
9/ Rear one-way clutch worn/damaged.
Lee "
Lets disect it.
1/ He said he adjusted the linkage.
2/ He replaced the fluid.
3/ The pressure application won't work if the internal seals are worn.
4/ He replaced the filter.
5,6/ If these were at fault his concerns would be all the time, not just cold.
7/ Reverse works well so that rules out the pump.
8/ Now here is the good one.
9/ Not plausible. The O/R clutch works in D position only.
In 2nd gear the band is applied.
In manual Low the rear clutch is applied.
That leaves one area only. The forward clutch. It is worn out.
This is your quote.
" quick web search pulled this up as a troubleshooting tree......
No Forward - Reverse OK
1/ Transmission shift cable broken or misadjusted.
2/ Improper fluid level.
3/ Improper band/clutch application pressure.
4/ Fluid filter damaged or plugged.
5/ Main control assembly gaskets damaged or bolt out of torque.
6/ Main control separator plate damaged.
7/ Pump assembly damaged or leaking.
8/ Forward clutch assembly burnt, damaged, or leaking.
9/ Rear one-way clutch worn/damaged.
Lee "
Lets disect it.
1/ He said he adjusted the linkage.
2/ He replaced the fluid.
3/ The pressure application won't work if the internal seals are worn.
4/ He replaced the filter.
5,6/ If these were at fault his concerns would be all the time, not just cold.
7/ Reverse works well so that rules out the pump.
8/ Now here is the good one.
9/ Not plausible. The O/R clutch works in D position only.
In 2nd gear the band is applied.
In manual Low the rear clutch is applied.
That leaves one area only. The forward clutch. It is worn out.