Starting problems
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Ok I have asked this question before but never seem to get a straight answer and the problem is getting bad enough that I going to have to do something about it. I have a 67 f100, I bought a 79 f150 parts truck and put the motor(302) and trans(c4) out of it into my 67 but it was all rebuilt first. I know there are 2 different kind of c4 trans is the difference a car and truck thing or just different models the bellhousings fit up different because we also had a 78 f150 and the trans looks different and the one in mine looks like one I pulled out of a lincoln before. Well anyway I think somebody might have got some parts mixed up because the starter makes an awful noise when you got to start it and here lately when it gets hot it makes a humming noise and acts like it doesn't want to start unless you let it cool. Now is there a such thing as mix matching a bellhousing and a flexplate and starter combo. Please help anyone.
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I have the same problem and i havent quite figured out what to do about it but here is what ppl have told me to do about it. the first thing they told me to do was take off the wire that connects from the solenoid to the starter and scratch the metal part that bolts to the start to make a better connection. i did that and it worked for a bout a week and it did it again. sometimes i jump the solenoid and that works. this problem has been going on for a while and still not sure what will really help.
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Originally Posted by tallica2002
Ok I have asked this question before but never seem to get a straight answer and the problem is getting bad enough that I going to have to do something about it. I have a 67 f100, I bought a 79 f150 parts truck and put the motor(302) and trans(c4) out of it into my 67 but it was all rebuilt first. I know there are 2 different kind of c4 trans is the difference a car and truck thing or just different models the bellhousings fit up different because we also had a 78 f150 and the trans looks different and the one in mine looks like one I pulled out of a lincoln before. Well anyway I think somebody might have got some parts mixed up because the starter makes an awful noise when you got to start it and here lately when it gets hot it makes a humming noise and acts like it doesn't want to start unless you let it cool. Now is there a such thing as mix matching a bellhousing and a flexplate and starter combo. Please help anyone.
Most likely the starter is on the blitz and the starter is going to need replacing. But before you go to replacing any parts,
First, remove starter and inspect all the teeth on flywheel for damage and teeth on starter for damage. Does fly wheel need replacing? Also count the number of teeth on the fly wheel? How many teeth?
The 1978 ford truck with a 302 came factory Original equipment manufactured (OEM) with a 168 tooth flywheel which was replaced with a 164 teeth flywheel. The older ford car transmission came with a 157 teeth flywheel.
There are two differences for fly wheels a 164-tooth flywheel or the smaller 157-tooth flywheel.
Make sure the balance matches your engine by determining the year of your engine. 302 cubic inch displacement (CID) Ford engines came balanced with either a 28.2-ounce flywheel or 50-ounce. The 1982 engine was the transition year between the two different balance weights.
Flywheel counter weight facts
1968-1981 302 - 28oz.
1982-1992 302 - 50oz.
1969-1997 351W - 28oz.
Also, 302 CID engine came out with 2 starters, one with nose housing that extends 2'' and with nose housing that extends 2 3/8''.
Measure the nose housing on the old starter from the base of the housing to the tip of starter. What size of nose housing does the starter have?
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Ok I ordered the engine from the machine shop as a 79 ford truck and it said 77-79 when I got it. Is it possible to mix a 164 flywheel and a 157 bellhousing? Am I right about the whole transmissions being totally different between cars and trucks if so I have a car transmission in there.
Ps. It does seem to shake a little when it is just running. How bad would it usually shake if you have a diff balance flywheel in there?
Ps. It does seem to shake a little when it is just running. How bad would it usually shake if you have a diff balance flywheel in there?
Last edited by tallica2002; Aug 9, 2005 at 08:43 AM.
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Bellhousings come in several versions. Case fills come with bell housing that bolt to the pump while pan fills come with bell housing that bolt to the case. The case fills use the 157 teeth flywheel and the pan fills use the 164 teeth, but there are few exceptions. The best way to verify these bell housing is to measure the depth from one side to side. If the depth is 5 7/8" it is a small bell 157 teeth fly wheel, if it is 6 1/4 is regular bell 164 teeth flywheel and if it measure 7" it is a c5 bell housing with 164 teeth flywheel. How many teeth does the fly wheel have?
Conclusion, measured differences, the measured difference between a 157 teeth flywheel and a 164 teeth flywheel is 3/8 inch. The measured difference between the 302 CID starters, one with nose housing that extends 2'' and with nose housing that extends 2 3/8" is also 3/8 inch" . Starters also come in either a 2 bolt or 3 bolt. Let me know what is the Casting number on Bellhousing?
The 302 CID V-8 Block > The casting number is located where the starter bolts up to the bell housing. Removal of the starter is necessary to see the engine casting number and should read somthing like this > C8AE-6015-B. The correct flywheel should be placed on your engine and is determined by the year of the engine. What is the casting number off the engine?
Let me know what the transmission tag number is and the metal tag is locate on the transmission servo (it round and is situated on the right side (passenger side) of transmission housing). Give me the numbers off the tag and I can give you what your transmission is from?
Conclusion, measured differences, the measured difference between a 157 teeth flywheel and a 164 teeth flywheel is 3/8 inch. The measured difference between the 302 CID starters, one with nose housing that extends 2'' and with nose housing that extends 2 3/8" is also 3/8 inch" . Starters also come in either a 2 bolt or 3 bolt. Let me know what is the Casting number on Bellhousing?
The 302 CID V-8 Block > The casting number is located where the starter bolts up to the bell housing. Removal of the starter is necessary to see the engine casting number and should read somthing like this > C8AE-6015-B. The correct flywheel should be placed on your engine and is determined by the year of the engine. What is the casting number off the engine?
Let me know what the transmission tag number is and the metal tag is locate on the transmission servo (it round and is situated on the right side (passenger side) of transmission housing). Give me the numbers off the tag and I can give you what your transmission is from?
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Well I don't think the tag is still on the tranny but I know it is a case fill. And also sorry to ask you this question and not be prepared to answer your questions but I was trying to get some of the homework before I tackled trying to see what was wrong. I was young and dumb and put stupid heddman headaches on there, yeah I know that is probably causing some of my problems its gonna be a P.I.T.B. to get them out,but once I do I'm gonna throw them as far as I can. So don't know how soon I can have them questions answered for you, but I thank you for all your help and will look you up when I do. Thanks again.
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Originally Posted by tallica2002
heddman headaches on there, yeah I know that is probably causing some of my problems its gonna be a P.I.T.B. to get them out
Getting the other numbers will be a good cross reference check to determine what setup your running on the c4 combo parts, flywheel, & starter.
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Ok I don't think the tag is still on the tranny, and they put a new bellhousing on for me when I had it rebuilt because they told me it had a crack in it I know there is a # on the pass side right about the pan would that help. And also where would the # be on the bellhousing?
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1. Does the transmission tube where the transmission dipstick is in mount on the transmission pan or on the casing of the transmission?
You should be able to pull of the transmission cover on the transmission, usually they have 4 bolts on the bottom. Before you start counting teeth on flywheel, on the flywheel mark it with some type of marker (this is your starting point), rotate the flywheel and count teeth till you reach back to the beginning mark.
2. How much teeth on flywheel?
Now that you have the trans cover off,Can you measure the diameter (one side to other side) of the flywheel.
3. Is the diameter 11.30 inch (157 teeth) or is the diameter 13.30 inch (164 teeth)
If its and aftermarket bell housing, Measure the transmission bellhousing the horizontal distance from the point were it bolts to the engine to point where it bolts to the housing, If the horizontal depth is 5 7/8" it is a small bellhousing and engine should have 157 teeth flywheel, if it is 6 1/4 is regular bellhousing and the engine should have 164 teeth flywheel. or it can also be 7" Bell.
4. What did you measure horizontally on your bellhousing?
The ford oem numbers will read something like this C8AE-, D7HE
You should be able to pull of the transmission cover on the transmission, usually they have 4 bolts on the bottom. Before you start counting teeth on flywheel, on the flywheel mark it with some type of marker (this is your starting point), rotate the flywheel and count teeth till you reach back to the beginning mark.
2. How much teeth on flywheel?
Now that you have the trans cover off,Can you measure the diameter (one side to other side) of the flywheel.
3. Is the diameter 11.30 inch (157 teeth) or is the diameter 13.30 inch (164 teeth)
If its and aftermarket bell housing, Measure the transmission bellhousing the horizontal distance from the point were it bolts to the engine to point where it bolts to the housing, If the horizontal depth is 5 7/8" it is a small bellhousing and engine should have 157 teeth flywheel, if it is 6 1/4 is regular bellhousing and the engine should have 164 teeth flywheel. or it can also be 7" Bell.
4. What did you measure horizontally on your bellhousing?
The ford oem numbers will read something like this C8AE-, D7HE
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Ok I'm back with a little info the flywheel is a 157 tooth and I think that it is the right bellhousing for it because I don't think any bigger would fit in there. Approx. 1/4 inch on each side may even be less. Ok so when I bought my starter I got it for a 78 f100 with 302 now do you think I could have gotten lucky enough to just have the wrong starter if so what should I ask for one for maybe a Maverick or a Falcon.
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Measure the transmission bellhousing the horizontal distance from the point were it bolts to the engine to point where it bolts to the housing, If the horizontal depth is 5 7/8" it is a small bellhousing and engine should have 157 teeth flywheel, if it is 6 1/4 is regular bellhousing and the engine should have 164 teeth flywheel. or it can also be 7" Bell.
Measure the length of the bellhousing, what is the horizontal distance of the bell housing?
Conclusion, measured differences, the measured difference between a 157 teeth flywheel and a 164 teeth flywheel is 3/8 inch. The measured difference between the 302 CID starters, one has a nose housing that extends 2'' and the other has a nose housing that extends 2 3/8". The difference in the two starter housings and two bell houssings is 3/8 inch". Starters also come in either a 2 bolt or 3 bolt.
Measure the length of the bellhousing, what is the horizontal distance of the bell housing?
Conclusion, measured differences, the measured difference between a 157 teeth flywheel and a 164 teeth flywheel is 3/8 inch. The measured difference between the 302 CID starters, one has a nose housing that extends 2'' and the other has a nose housing that extends 2 3/8". The difference in the two starter housings and two bell houssings is 3/8 inch". Starters also come in either a 2 bolt or 3 bolt.
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Ok I couldn't figure out how you wanted me to measure the bellhousing, but I did find the tag that I thought was gone the numbers are as follows.
PEE AK5
D4DDA B12B
Ps. They changed the bellhousing at the tranny place because it was cracked, but I think they would have since enough to put the same one on.
PEE AK5
D4DDA B12B
Ps. They changed the bellhousing at the tranny place because it was cracked, but I think they would have since enough to put the same one on.
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The tag PEE AK5 cross references to C4 automatic transmission caming off a 1974 Ford Maverick with a column shift and bolted on to a 250cid (4.1 liter) 6 cylinder engine.
Your truck currently has a 157 teeth flywheel, the truck should have a small bellhousing depth and should measure 5 <SUP>7</SUP>/<SUB>8</SUB>” .
The 1978 FORD 302 cid engine came stock with a 164 teeth flywheel and the 6 1/4 " depth bell housing.
What is the horizontal depth of the bellhousing on your truck? (measure from the front of bellhousing (near the engine) horizontally to the the rear of the bell housing. It should measure either 5 <SUP>7</SUP>/<SUB>8</SUB>” or 6 1/4 " depth.
Your truck currently has a 157 teeth flywheel, the truck should have a small bellhousing depth and should measure 5 <SUP>7</SUP>/<SUB>8</SUB>” .
The 1978 FORD 302 cid engine came stock with a 164 teeth flywheel and the 6 1/4 " depth bell housing.
What is the horizontal depth of the bellhousing on your truck? (measure from the front of bellhousing (near the engine) horizontally to the the rear of the bell housing. It should measure either 5 <SUP>7</SUP>/<SUB>8</SUB>” or 6 1/4 " depth.
Last edited by 1975Ford; Sep 8, 2005 at 12:00 AM.
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From: baconton usa
Starting problems
Ok I have to go to work today so I can't measure it right now, but did the 250 6 cyl have the same bolt pattern as the 302, what I am trying to say is it possible I have a 6 cyl flywheel in there causing the slight balance problem.
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Also measure the torque converter bolts from one bolt side to the opposite bolt side, your torque converter should measure 10.5". The larger torque converters measures from one bolt side to the opposite bolt side measures 11 7/16" and would need a 164 teeth flywheel. It apparent the transmission and torque converter was used off the car. The fly wheel must have been replaced with the smaller 157 teeth style flywheel and the 157 teeth flywheel only fits the smaller 10.5" measuring from bolt to opposite bolt on torque converter.
I'm figuring the bell housing is the larger bellhousing on your truck.
The older mustangs with the 302 had the smaller bell housing.
I'm figuring the bell housing is the larger bellhousing on your truck.
The older mustangs with the 302 had the smaller bell housing.