Cowl Vent Woes
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Littleton, New Hampshire
Cowl Vent Woes
Well, I put it off as long as I could but today I finally tackled the cowl vent assembly on my 48. What a PITA! I knew it would be. One screw came out of the cover, one wrung off and the other two turned but would not come out. I finally did get the cover off and then the four front screws that hold the assembly to the cowl came out okay and one of the rear four, but one wrung off and the other two in the rear just turn without coming out. I can't even get to them to grind the heads off. Any ideas on how to get them out before I drill them out? I was really hoping to use my cowl vent since I won't be running A/C but its looking like I might have to seal it. The cover has a lot of rust in it that rattles around inside too and I'm not sure what I can do about the wrung off screws. Are these things available aftermarket or will I have to search Ebay for one? Anybody else been through this? 
Vern
Vern
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Valley Center, CA
Vern, this sounds like a good job for a sharp chisel. Can you just slice off the heads of the wrung out screws? One quick little whack should do it. Once all the heads are off, you should be able to pry everything off. I am not familiar with your vintage, but about three years ago Dewayne sent me four ss screws for the cowl vent on my 54. 
So I say you can prob find them for yours. Good luck, Jag
So I say you can prob find them for yours. Good luck, Jag
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Kalispell, MT
Now you know why mine leaks after 4 years on the road and I haven't bothered to fix it. Only leaks in a hard driving rain. Doesn't rain like that very often anyways.
I think a chisel would collapse the vent lid. I'm running with one that snapped off. The holes in the hinge should be slotted, so if you can just get some motion......you really don't need to take them all the way out.
In your shoes I'd go for the drill, then weld the holes shut and re-tap for new screws.
They're probably cage nuts? Any chance to pry the lid apart and get to them from the inside? I don't remember exactly what its like, but I do have an extra (same shape) that I could practice on if you'd like...........
I think a chisel would collapse the vent lid. I'm running with one that snapped off. The holes in the hinge should be slotted, so if you can just get some motion......you really don't need to take them all the way out.
In your shoes I'd go for the drill, then weld the holes shut and re-tap for new screws.
They're probably cage nuts? Any chance to pry the lid apart and get to them from the inside? I don't remember exactly what its like, but I do have an extra (same shape) that I could practice on if you'd like...........
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,768
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From: Minnesota
If it is like my 1950 F1 they were oval head sheet metal screws. Can you push up on the bottom of the screws and turn from the top? I just had to push up enough to get to threads that were not wornout.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,730
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From: Waynesville, OH
Vern, the last thing I would worry about is finding new screws - as long as you have one you can measure. McMaster-Carr has a ton of different types and sizes in steel, stainless steel, nylon, brass, etc. I'd focus on getting the vent disassembled and cleaned out inside if you can. I just took my 56 off, but I haven't disassembled it yet. I suspect it's a totally different design as I don't see any screws holding it together except the screws holding the hinges on.
Can you get at them with a dremel (or similar) tool? I finally broke down and bought some small diamond and carbide tipped tools for mine and they've saved my butt several times in situations like yours. It takes a little time, but you can remove the screw heads without messing up the holes at all. Afterwards, I used a dolly (a block of steel
) and a hammer to flatten out the sheet metal where the screw holes were. That closed up the holes enough that new screws fit nice and tight when I reassembled.
Can you get at them with a dremel (or similar) tool? I finally broke down and bought some small diamond and carbide tipped tools for mine and they've saved my butt several times in situations like yours. It takes a little time, but you can remove the screw heads without messing up the holes at all. Afterwards, I used a dolly (a block of steel
) and a hammer to flatten out the sheet metal where the screw holes were. That closed up the holes enough that new screws fit nice and tight when I reassembled.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Littleton, New Hampshire
Thanks for the ideas. The area is too delicate for a chisel and the slotted screw heads are countersunk so there's no chance of getting under them with a chisel anyway. I might be able to get a dremel in there and grind off the heads. I'll try that today and if that doesn't work I'll drill them out. I'm not too worried about replacement screws but I am concerned about how to re-attach the vent lid to the assembly and the the assembly to the cowl after I grind off the screw heads or drill them out. The metal in that area is too light for welding. Perhaps I can drill new holes near the old ones to fasten it back in. 
Vern
Vern
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Harpswell Maine
I took a look at my 49. A dremel tool should work. You should be able to either gas weld up the holes and redrill or drill new holes offset from the existing holesFords design for attachment of the vent lid to the mechanism was much better in the 30's.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Seattle WA.
I had to drill two of the rear screws out in the rear also. If you look under the dash you should have caged square nuts. The ones that are just turning; the nuts are probably turning in the cages. I would try having an assistant hold them with channel locks and try to get the screws out. If that won't work they will either have to be ground off from the bottom or drilled out. I opted to drill them as I'm driving my 51 daily.
One other thing, besure to check the windshield wiper posts for leakage. I thought my vent seal was the problem, but after changing the seal I still had water around the gas pedal whenever I drove it in the rain, or used the pressure hose on it. It turned out the water was leaking past the chrome pivot trim piece.
Rod
One other thing, besure to check the windshield wiper posts for leakage. I thought my vent seal was the problem, but after changing the seal I still had water around the gas pedal whenever I drove it in the rain, or used the pressure hose on it. It turned out the water was leaking past the chrome pivot trim piece.
Rod
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Kalispell, MT
I noticed a major difference which accounts for the variety of suggestions you got Vern. I have here a 48, 49 and 52 lid. 48/49 are the same so I imagine the change occured mid-50 or with the 51-52 body style.
The early lid consists of 2 nearly equal sized pieces of sheetmetal, sandwiched together with spotwelds. They do have cage nuts inside. Pulling one apart will require some serious body work to smooth things out again, but could be done.
The late lid consists of one piece of sheet metal with a squared U-shaped channel down the center line of the lid. The channel is spotwelded to the lid and is open on the ends. It might be possible to grab the cage nuts with long nose vice grips.
The early lid consists of 2 nearly equal sized pieces of sheetmetal, sandwiched together with spotwelds. They do have cage nuts inside. Pulling one apart will require some serious body work to smooth things out again, but could be done.
The late lid consists of one piece of sheet metal with a squared U-shaped channel down the center line of the lid. The channel is spotwelded to the lid and is open on the ends. It might be possible to grab the cage nuts with long nose vice grips.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Littleton, New Hampshire
I got the vent assembly out today by drilling out the screw heads holding it to the cowl and them removing them from under the dash with vice grips. The lid (cover) is the part that is screwed up. The square nuts that were spot welded to the inside of the sandwiched cover have all come loose so now I have four holes and no way to put the screws back in. Even if I figure out how to close up the holes and redrill them I'd have no way to put the square nuts back under the cover. It looks like I will be looking for another lid if I want to keep a cowl vent...
Vern
Vern
Roast em' if you got 'em
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Rio Rancho, NM
Vern,
Is there enough room to use nutserts? (I'm not sure if I'm using the right term here) The are kinda like rivets but are a nut. We used to use them to install auto accessories like luggage and roof racks. They are great for blindholes in sheetmetal.
I just went to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and typed in "nutsert" in the search box and found what I was describing.
Check it out, maybe it will work for you
Bobby
Is there enough room to use nutserts? (I'm not sure if I'm using the right term here) The are kinda like rivets but are a nut. We used to use them to install auto accessories like luggage and roof racks. They are great for blindholes in sheetmetal.
I just went to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and typed in "nutsert" in the search box and found what I was describing.
Check it out, maybe it will work for you
Bobby
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Littleton, New Hampshire
Originally Posted by bobbytnm
Vern,
Is there enough room to use nutserts? (I'm not sure if I'm using the right term here) The are kinda like rivets but are a nut. We used to use them to install auto accessories like luggage and roof racks. They are great for blindholes in sheetmetal.
I just went to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and typed in "nutsert" in the search box and found what I was describing.
Check it out, maybe it will work for you
Bobby
Is there enough room to use nutserts? (I'm not sure if I'm using the right term here) The are kinda like rivets but are a nut. We used to use them to install auto accessories like luggage and roof racks. They are great for blindholes in sheetmetal.
I just went to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and typed in "nutsert" in the search box and found what I was describing.
Check it out, maybe it will work for you
Bobby
I've never used anything like that but they look like they might work. I'll look further into those.
Vern
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Valley Center, CA
I did not find what you were referring to at McMaster, but are they like the nylon inserts that they have at Kragen? They are used to hold on license plates. You need a square hole that they pop into and then spread as the bolt screws in. Jag
Jag
Roast em' if you got 'em
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,972
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From: Rio Rancho, NM
Jag,
Nope, I know what you mean though, those nylon nuts are used alot on modern cars for grills, parking lamps, license plates etc.
Try typing in "nut inserts" or "rivet nuts" intot he search box at http://www.mcmaster.com/. Basically its a nut witha small cage on it that is inserted in a hole when you tighten a bolt or screw in the nut it collapses the cage against the underside of the hole sandwiching the sheetmetal between the flange and the collapsed cage.
Man, that little thing is hard to describe
Good luck,
Bobby
Nope, I know what you mean though, those nylon nuts are used alot on modern cars for grills, parking lamps, license plates etc.
Try typing in "nut inserts" or "rivet nuts" intot he search box at http://www.mcmaster.com/. Basically its a nut witha small cage on it that is inserted in a hole when you tighten a bolt or screw in the nut it collapses the cage against the underside of the hole sandwiching the sheetmetal between the flange and the collapsed cage.
Man, that little thing is hard to describe
Good luck,
Bobby