Starter/Ignition - won't shut down
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2002
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Starter/Ignition - won't shut down
1988 F250, 5.8L, Auto with new battery and solenoid
The starter wouldn't disengage - I turned off the ignition, but the truck wouldn't shut down until I disconnected the negative lead at the battery.
Got the truck home and replaced the starter. It started fine once. On the second start - the new starter wouldn't disengage so I disconnected the negative lead at the battery.
But - now I can't reconnect anything. With the ignition key off, the truck tries to start as soon as I touch the negative lead to the battery post.
Starter, starter relay and battery are two days old? What's going on? Is the ignition switch shorted? The new relay bad? Help!
Thanks, Dan
The starter wouldn't disengage - I turned off the ignition, but the truck wouldn't shut down until I disconnected the negative lead at the battery.
Got the truck home and replaced the starter. It started fine once. On the second start - the new starter wouldn't disengage so I disconnected the negative lead at the battery.
But - now I can't reconnect anything. With the ignition key off, the truck tries to start as soon as I touch the negative lead to the battery post.
Starter, starter relay and battery are two days old? What's going on? Is the ignition switch shorted? The new relay bad? Help!
Thanks, Dan
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 179
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From: Central Virginia
Depending on your particular model, your starter relay has either one or two small wires that connect to the starter relay via push on connectors. Disconnect the small wire/wires from the starter relay and reconnect the battery lead. If the starter still tries to run, the problem is in the starter relay itself. If the starter does not run with the small wires disconnected, the problem is probably the ingition switch itself.
Give it a go and let us know what happens.
Give it a go and let us know what happens.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 100
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Ford150Fixer
Thanks for the reply. I have all relays out of the truck. I presume that there should be zero continuity between the the two big posts (battery and starter). However, on both of the new relays (and one hasn't been used) there is continuity. I can understand the "new" one that has been used for a day can be fried, but what about the unused one - is it defective out of the box - or am I confused about the continuity test?
Also - does the relay include the solenoid - or is the solenoid on the starter itself?
Thanks, Dan
Thanks for the reply. I have all relays out of the truck. I presume that there should be zero continuity between the the two big posts (battery and starter). However, on both of the new relays (and one hasn't been used) there is continuity. I can understand the "new" one that has been used for a day can be fried, but what about the unused one - is it defective out of the box - or am I confused about the continuity test?
Also - does the relay include the solenoid - or is the solenoid on the starter itself?
Thanks, Dan
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
Ford150Fixer
Thanks for the reply. I have all relays out of the truck.
From previous posts, I presume that there should be zero continuity between the the two big terminals on the relay (battery and starter). However, on both of the new relays (and one hasn't been used) there is continuity. I can understand the "new" one that has been used for a day was fried when the starter hung up, but what about the unused one - is it defective out of the box - or am I confused about the continuity test?
Also - does the relay include the solenoid - or is the solenoid on the starter itself?
Thanks, Dan
Thanks for the reply. I have all relays out of the truck.
From previous posts, I presume that there should be zero continuity between the the two big terminals on the relay (battery and starter). However, on both of the new relays (and one hasn't been used) there is continuity. I can understand the "new" one that has been used for a day was fried when the starter hung up, but what about the unused one - is it defective out of the box - or am I confused about the continuity test?
Also - does the relay include the solenoid - or is the solenoid on the starter itself?
Thanks, Dan
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 243
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The solenoid(relay) on the starter itself should not engage, unless the first solenoid(relay) is energized.
I am not sure about continuity off the vehicle. For the solenoid to work it must be grounded. The ground is the bracket of the solenoid that bolts to the vehicle.
Was this doing this before you replaced solenoid? Sounds as if its not wired correctly. The wire to the starter should be the only wire on that side of the relay(solenoid).
If you have voltmeter or test light, hook solenoid(relay) back up without the wire to the starter. Check the terminal, where the starter wire goes, for voltage. The only time it has voltage is when ignition switch is in the "start" position.
If there is voltage with ignition in "off" position, take the red/blue wire off and check for voltage with ignition "off". If there is voltage, the problem is ignition switch or short. If it shows no voltage, problem is at relay(bad relay or wired wrong.)
please note that solenoid = relay.
I am not sure about continuity off the vehicle. For the solenoid to work it must be grounded. The ground is the bracket of the solenoid that bolts to the vehicle.
Was this doing this before you replaced solenoid? Sounds as if its not wired correctly. The wire to the starter should be the only wire on that side of the relay(solenoid).
If you have voltmeter or test light, hook solenoid(relay) back up without the wire to the starter. Check the terminal, where the starter wire goes, for voltage. The only time it has voltage is when ignition switch is in the "start" position.
If there is voltage with ignition in "off" position, take the red/blue wire off and check for voltage with ignition "off". If there is voltage, the problem is ignition switch or short. If it shows no voltage, problem is at relay(bad relay or wired wrong.)
please note that solenoid = relay.
Last edited by 220k-f-150; Jul 10, 2005 at 11:11 AM.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 100
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
The solenoid is wired correctly. The starter wire on one post (in my case toward the front); the small wire from the ignition switch to the "s" post. And the other wires to the other large post.
The "new" solenoid worked for a day before it or the starter hung up. I replaced the starter, but it only started once before it hung up.
Removed the solenoid - it was stuck- but it responded to a wrap on the table.
Now I'm ready to reassamble with a new solenoid. I'll check the voltage at the "s" terminal. I presume that the ignition switch is faulty if I find voltage at the "s" post when the ignition is off. Would that be correct?
Thanks, Dan
Thanks for the reply.
The solenoid is wired correctly. The starter wire on one post (in my case toward the front); the small wire from the ignition switch to the "s" post. And the other wires to the other large post.
The "new" solenoid worked for a day before it or the starter hung up. I replaced the starter, but it only started once before it hung up.
Removed the solenoid - it was stuck- but it responded to a wrap on the table.
Now I'm ready to reassamble with a new solenoid. I'll check the voltage at the "s" terminal. I presume that the ignition switch is faulty if I find voltage at the "s" post when the ignition is off. Would that be correct?
Thanks, Dan
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You wrote.
"Now I'm ready to reassamble with a new solenoid. I'll check the voltage at the "s" terminal. I presume that the ignition switch is faulty if I find voltage at the "s" post when the ignition is off. Would that be correct?"
Don't check at terminal. Take wire off and check wire for voltage.
"Now I'm ready to reassamble with a new solenoid. I'll check the voltage at the "s" terminal. I presume that the ignition switch is faulty if I find voltage at the "s" post when the ignition is off. Would that be correct?"
Don't check at terminal. Take wire off and check wire for voltage.
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From: Virginia
With the starter relay on the work bench, if you are getting continuity between #3 and #6 in the diagram above, the relay is bad. Striking it and then it suddenly reads good is another confirmation that the contacts were stuck, and the jolt broke them loose.
We have had way to many posts like this recently, of brand new starter relays not working. Most of the time, if you go buy another brand, it will work ok. Most people have been resorting to buying Ford brand starter relays and have been having good luck with them.
We must have gotten a whole ship load of defective relays from china. If I had to guess, I bet they are skimping on the alloy that the contacts are made of. For them to last they need to have a lot of silver content, and we know silver is very expensive. I think I would rather go to the junkyard and get a used one rather than buy a new one from the autoparts store. I hope we eventually work through these things.
Last edited by Franklin2; Jul 10, 2005 at 01:16 PM.
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I agree w/ Franklin2, sure seems to be happening alot. These relays should last a long time. unless you have a problem like here where something keeping the relay going.
As for quality, I use the same relay for a snow plow, and the cheapies won't cut it. Nothing like going through 5 relays in one night. Went to junk yard next day, grabbed a few, and never had the problem again; yet, anyway.
franklin2, the solenoid in the box had not been introduced to electical field yet. And I was wondering if his is the newer style, that could easily be put on upside down.
As for quality, I use the same relay for a snow plow, and the cheapies won't cut it. Nothing like going through 5 relays in one night. Went to junk yard next day, grabbed a few, and never had the problem again; yet, anyway.
franklin2, the solenoid in the box had not been introduced to electical field yet. And I was wondering if his is the newer style, that could easily be put on upside down.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2002
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Everything was hooked up correctly. Don't know why the new Ford Motorcraft solenoid got stuck, but it came unstuck with one gentle wrap. I've started it a few times and everythin is OK. Have an extra in case.
Thanks for everyone's help. This is a great site.
Dan
Thanks for everyone's help. This is a great site.
Dan
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Same problem on mine..
hi
thought I would jump in here too...
I've been having the same problem on my '87 F350. Replaced the solenoid 3 times, replaced the starter, still does it. I then left the nut off of the lead that goes to the starter, mostly to be able to disconnect it when it sticks, and with the starter lead loose and just resting on the terminal it works fine, starts and doesn't stick. As soon as I tigthten down the nut, the solenoid sticks, maybe a heat problem in the solenoid, or maybe the gap around the plunger is too tight? I tried different makes of solenoids.
I'll try a junkyard solenoid next, any other ideas why this is happening??
thanks all.
thought I would jump in here too...
I've been having the same problem on my '87 F350. Replaced the solenoid 3 times, replaced the starter, still does it. I then left the nut off of the lead that goes to the starter, mostly to be able to disconnect it when it sticks, and with the starter lead loose and just resting on the terminal it works fine, starts and doesn't stick. As soon as I tigthten down the nut, the solenoid sticks, maybe a heat problem in the solenoid, or maybe the gap around the plunger is too tight? I tried different makes of solenoids.
I'll try a junkyard solenoid next, any other ideas why this is happening??
thanks all.
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From: Virginia
Originally Posted by johnsound
hi
thought I would jump in here too...
I've been having the same problem on my '87 F350. Replaced the solenoid 3 times, replaced the starter, still does it. I then left the nut off of the lead that goes to the starter, mostly to be able to disconnect it when it sticks, and with the starter lead loose and just resting on the terminal it works fine, starts and doesn't stick. As soon as I tigthten down the nut, the solenoid sticks, maybe a heat problem in the solenoid, or maybe the gap around the plunger is too tight? I tried different makes of solenoids.
I'll try a junkyard solenoid next, any other ideas why this is happening??
thanks all.
thought I would jump in here too...
I've been having the same problem on my '87 F350. Replaced the solenoid 3 times, replaced the starter, still does it. I then left the nut off of the lead that goes to the starter, mostly to be able to disconnect it when it sticks, and with the starter lead loose and just resting on the terminal it works fine, starts and doesn't stick. As soon as I tigthten down the nut, the solenoid sticks, maybe a heat problem in the solenoid, or maybe the gap around the plunger is too tight? I tried different makes of solenoids.
I'll try a junkyard solenoid next, any other ideas why this is happening??
thanks all.