C6 to E4OD
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New User
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: St. Petersburg, FL
C6 to E4OD
I have an ’88 EFI f150 short bed with a 300 I6 coupled to a C6 with (as near as I can guesstimate) a 410 rear axle. The tires are 235/75 15’s with a diameter of about 27.5“.
With normal driving, my gas mileage is dismal… around 10 or 11 mpg.
Driving like a dottering old man out on the hiway, I can manage about 15.2 mpg. However, this requires that I keep the RPM’s down to 2500, poking along at somewhere near 50 mph.
Needless to say, this infuriates all the drivers who have to get around me.
My hope is to be able to swap out the C6 for an E4OD or a 4R100. Yes, I could put on some 33” tires, and enjoy a more normal hiway speed, bringing my mileage up to 18 mpg or so. But I would lose the kick I get out of occasionally making that high torque six show off the 410 gears. And this leads me to a bunch of questions:
I’ve tried to research this as much as possible, but I’m not sure the answers I’ve come up with are accurate. I’m hoping someone here has already done this swap, or can direct my steps.
Are these assumptions correct?
1 The 4R100 is the newer version of the E4OD.
2 Neither are electronically controlled.
3 Both will accept the stock 300 flywheel, as is.
4 Either is a direct bolt-up to my 300.
5 They will require only a TV cable change to work.
6 The E4OD is basically a C6 with Overdrive.
7 The AOD is a C4 with Overdrive.
8 The AOD is not a direct swap for my 300, and will require a new flywheel.
9 The AOD is not the way to go (a weaker transmission?)
These are just some preliminary questions I came up with. If there is anyone here who can give me more detailed advice and/or information on the feasibility of this transmission swap, I would sure appreciate it.
Thanks,
Willie T
With normal driving, my gas mileage is dismal… around 10 or 11 mpg.
Driving like a dottering old man out on the hiway, I can manage about 15.2 mpg. However, this requires that I keep the RPM’s down to 2500, poking along at somewhere near 50 mph.
Needless to say, this infuriates all the drivers who have to get around me.
My hope is to be able to swap out the C6 for an E4OD or a 4R100. Yes, I could put on some 33” tires, and enjoy a more normal hiway speed, bringing my mileage up to 18 mpg or so. But I would lose the kick I get out of occasionally making that high torque six show off the 410 gears. And this leads me to a bunch of questions:
I’ve tried to research this as much as possible, but I’m not sure the answers I’ve come up with are accurate. I’m hoping someone here has already done this swap, or can direct my steps.
Are these assumptions correct?
1 The 4R100 is the newer version of the E4OD.
2 Neither are electronically controlled.
3 Both will accept the stock 300 flywheel, as is.
4 Either is a direct bolt-up to my 300.
5 They will require only a TV cable change to work.
6 The E4OD is basically a C6 with Overdrive.
7 The AOD is a C4 with Overdrive.
8 The AOD is not a direct swap for my 300, and will require a new flywheel.
9 The AOD is not the way to go (a weaker transmission?)
These are just some preliminary questions I came up with. If there is anyone here who can give me more detailed advice and/or information on the feasibility of this transmission swap, I would sure appreciate it.
Thanks,
Willie T
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 575
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From: Western Pa
I can't answer any of your questions, however, I would not recommend the E4OD. That's coming from me, and only me. Other more experienced people may have other opinions and I don't want to discredit other people who do have the E4OD and and would recommend it. I get about 10 or 11, just driving around town a little. Here's how it's set up, as to my knowledge:
1st and 2nd gear have a torque converter
3rd and 4th have direct drive
I can't coast down hills, unless they're almost strait down.
As for reliability, I have over 140000 on it, and it still works great.
I do have 32' tires, however.
1st and 2nd gear have a torque converter
3rd and 4th have direct drive
I can't coast down hills, unless they're almost strait down.
As for reliability, I have over 140000 on it, and it still works great.
I do have 32' tires, however.
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New User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12
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From: St. Petersburg, FL
Are you saying that to get the coasting feature, I would have to go with the AOD? As it is now, the 410 gears almost make it feel like I'm applying the brakes when I let off the gas anywhere above 35 mph.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,253
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From: spartanburg, SC
1 The 4R100 is the newer version of the E4OD.
Yes
2 Neither are electronically controlled.
No, fully electronic controlled by the PCM or and aftermarket controller
3 Both will accept the stock 300 flywheel, as is.
Yes
4 Either is a direct bolt-up to my 300.
Yes, if its a smallblock E4OD
5 They will require only a TV cable change to work.
No, it uses a tps sensor
6 The E4OD is basically a C6 with Overdrive.
Yes
7 The AOD is a C4 with Overdrive.
Basically
8 The AOD is not a direct swap for my 300, and will require a new flywheel.
I think so
9 The AOD is not the way to go (a weaker transmission?)
I wouldn't use it to tow alot.
F150090300 it sounds like the PCM is locking your converter in 3rd and 4th.
You can get an aftermarket controller for the E4OD.
its fully programmable, you can even use the stock cruise buttons to shift it manually.
http://www.baumannengineering.com/tcs.htm
I would not do the swap with out the aftermarket controller, as F150090300 pointed out the stock PCM shift points suck.
Yes
2 Neither are electronically controlled.
No, fully electronic controlled by the PCM or and aftermarket controller
3 Both will accept the stock 300 flywheel, as is.
Yes
4 Either is a direct bolt-up to my 300.
Yes, if its a smallblock E4OD
5 They will require only a TV cable change to work.
No, it uses a tps sensor
6 The E4OD is basically a C6 with Overdrive.
Yes
7 The AOD is a C4 with Overdrive.
Basically
8 The AOD is not a direct swap for my 300, and will require a new flywheel.
I think so
9 The AOD is not the way to go (a weaker transmission?)
I wouldn't use it to tow alot.
F150090300 it sounds like the PCM is locking your converter in 3rd and 4th.
You can get an aftermarket controller for the E4OD.
its fully programmable, you can even use the stock cruise buttons to shift it manually.
http://www.baumannengineering.com/tcs.htm
I would not do the swap with out the aftermarket controller, as F150090300 pointed out the stock PCM shift points suck.
Last edited by F150daniel; Jun 28, 2005 at 09:34 PM.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 2
From: spartanburg, SC
Some E4ODs have better hardparts than others. Try Get a 95 or later.
If you do the swap use a aftermarket controller to control it, money very well spent. The stock PCM is many(maybe most) of the reasons people say the E4OD sucks. A electronic tranny is only as good as the controller controlling it. Those slow smooth shifts wear out clutches alot faster than firm shifts. I think the VB controls the WOT shift firmness.
If you do the swap use a aftermarket controller to control it, money very well spent. The stock PCM is many(maybe most) of the reasons people say the E4OD sucks. A electronic tranny is only as good as the controller controlling it. Those slow smooth shifts wear out clutches alot faster than firm shifts. I think the VB controls the WOT shift firmness.
Last edited by F150daniel; Jun 28, 2005 at 10:57 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
From: The KeyStone State
The AOD is NOT C4 based.
AOD planetary and inner working bare a striking resemblence to the old FMX auto that Ford used up until 1980.
It's compact design is mainly because of the compound planetary design.
Unless your truck has been modified, it is unlikely to have 4.10 gears.
There are exceptions, but you more than likely have 3.55s.
Even with 3.55, you will have great results with either AOD or E4OD.
An AOD can be used with good results.
I built one and have towed in OverDrive at gross load of around 11,000 at times.
Although you don't have to go all out, some sort of shift kit is a must for an AOD.
AOD is a much simpler swap than E4OD, easier on both the wallet and electronics aspect.
The AOD requires a new flywheel, though most parts stores don't list it, you can order one through bulk-part.com for around $25-30.
I built mine up considering the abuse it would see, and it hasn't failed yet.
Taking into account the fact that Ford still uses the 4R70W(4R75E) version of this transmission behind the very powerful engines they're using today.
Even one of the components that went into mine was stamped 4R75.
-Jackson-
AOD planetary and inner working bare a striking resemblence to the old FMX auto that Ford used up until 1980.
It's compact design is mainly because of the compound planetary design.
Unless your truck has been modified, it is unlikely to have 4.10 gears.
There are exceptions, but you more than likely have 3.55s.
Even with 3.55, you will have great results with either AOD or E4OD.
An AOD can be used with good results.
I built one and have towed in OverDrive at gross load of around 11,000 at times.
Although you don't have to go all out, some sort of shift kit is a must for an AOD.
AOD is a much simpler swap than E4OD, easier on both the wallet and electronics aspect.
The AOD requires a new flywheel, though most parts stores don't list it, you can order one through bulk-part.com for around $25-30.
I built mine up considering the abuse it would see, and it hasn't failed yet.
Taking into account the fact that Ford still uses the 4R70W(4R75E) version of this transmission behind the very powerful engines they're using today.
Even one of the components that went into mine was stamped 4R75.
-Jackson-
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From: Rosedale BC Can.
Yakk
What gearing is in your rearend to tow that kind of weight in overdrive?I'm currently building a truck and would like to be able to tow up to 8000 lbs.I currently have a c6 with 250 or 273 gears in a 2 wheel dr truck.Do you think that would be sufficient?This is my first 4.9 and as yet have never driven it.
What gearing is in your rearend to tow that kind of weight in overdrive?I'm currently building a truck and would like to be able to tow up to 8000 lbs.I currently have a c6 with 250 or 273 gears in a 2 wheel dr truck.Do you think that would be sufficient?This is my first 4.9 and as yet have never driven it.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: The KeyStone State
At the time I had 3.55 gears and 30.5" tires.
So the engine spinning around 1600-1700 rpm between 60-65.
For towing, it will only pull overdrive on the flats.
I was towing a Bronco on a car trailer with my E 250.
Now I run 4.1 gears with 32" tires.
4.27/4.30 or 4.56 gears would work nice
8000 lbs, is that the trailer or truck-trailer combo?
What truck model do you have?
What tire size have you got?
-Jackson-
So the engine spinning around 1600-1700 rpm between 60-65.
For towing, it will only pull overdrive on the flats.
I was towing a Bronco on a car trailer with my E 250.
Now I run 4.1 gears with 32" tires.
4.27/4.30 or 4.56 gears would work nice
8000 lbs, is that the trailer or truck-trailer combo?
What truck model do you have?
What tire size have you got?
-Jackson-
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 66
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From: Rosedale BC Can.
Jackson
That is trailer weight at the most.It will usually be a car hauler with car or a 4000 lb camper.Drive train is out of a 88 f150 and I'm putting it into a 3500 lb F100.I don't do that much towing but we do live in the rocky mountains.AT what RPM do you thinkthe c6 with 273 gears will run at 60 mph.Same question with 373 gears.
That is trailer weight at the most.It will usually be a car hauler with car or a 4000 lb camper.Drive train is out of a 88 f150 and I'm putting it into a 3500 lb F100.I don't do that much towing but we do live in the rocky mountains.AT what RPM do you thinkthe c6 with 273 gears will run at 60 mph.Same question with 373 gears.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
From: The KeyStone State
8,000# Thats more than alot even for an EFI 4.9L.
I'll assume 235/75/15 tires which equal 28.8"
2.73 gearing at 60 is 1912. (2230 at 70)
3.55 gearing at 60 is 2487. (2901 at 70)
3.73 gearing at 60 is 2613. (3048 at 70)
Remember that the C6's non lockup design will allow the converter to slip causing the RPMs to be slightly higher.
Although higher engine speed reduces the slip factor.
-Jackson-
I'll assume 235/75/15 tires which equal 28.8"
2.73 gearing at 60 is 1912. (2230 at 70)
3.55 gearing at 60 is 2487. (2901 at 70)
3.73 gearing at 60 is 2613. (3048 at 70)
Remember that the C6's non lockup design will allow the converter to slip causing the RPMs to be slightly higher.
Although higher engine speed reduces the slip factor.
-Jackson-
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 66
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From: Rosedale BC Can.
Thanks for the advice guys.Your right 8000 would be pushing it.It would actually be more like a max of 6000 with trailer and car the odd time.I just like to build things a little overkill.
Here is an unrelated question.There is a new thread about a centre hump oil pan.I can't answer his question but would sure like to know what year or what truck that oil pan is off of.That would save me a lot of modifying the one I have.Does anyone know?
Here is an unrelated question.There is a new thread about a centre hump oil pan.I can't answer his question but would sure like to know what year or what truck that oil pan is off of.That would save me a lot of modifying the one I have.Does anyone know?
