Lately we've been having a high number of pitbull attacks around here.

I mean vicious attacks.

One 12 year old kid that lived near where I live died by the family dogs, 2 pits.

Apperently so bad that some of the S.F.P.D. officers were in tears.

Another girl had the neighbor's dog clamp on her face and then bit her mother.

Another one chased a guy back into his house.

Now they're talking about banning these breeds.

They say that pits are number 1 in attacks, and that Rots are number 2, in this country.

In your opinion, what do you think should be done, if anything can be done?

 

In Oklahoma City (actually one of the suburbs, I think) in the last couple of weeks, Pit Bulls chewed a 2 year old boy's arm up so badly that it had to be amputated. He'd stuck his arm through a fence trying to pet them - if they could've gotten more than the arm, they probably would've killed him. So now they're talking bans here, too.

Now I care about animals as much as anyone, but what we're talking about here is a pretty good sized dog that has (for the biggest part anyway) been bred to kill. They don't just bite, they don't let go 'til they kill or get killed. It's their nature, and people have cultivated that trait in them. I have no doubt that some of them may seem fairly harmless, but one move percieved by them as a threat - either to them or the people they care about or just simply their territory - could bring out that killer instinct.

Our neighbors (they live across the road and a couple of hundred yards down - ours are the only 2 houses within 3/4 of a mile or so) just got 4 of them. Now we're talking about a single mom with a teenage son and a 6 or 7 year old daughter. The little girl comes over regularly to play with our 5 year old twins, they have gone over there on occasion, but they won't anymore. They've also been specifically instructed not to go out if she comes over and brings the dogs with her. Like I said, no matter how "sweet" they may seem, what if they decide our kids are a threat to her? The worse part is that these are nice enough folks, but not real responsible, if you know what I mean. They're often not around for days at a time.... And these dogs are running loose, not penned or tied. They've not been a problem so far, and I hope they don't, because I won't allow them to become a risk to my family, or my livestock.

I think they might have a place - as guard dogs in a controlled setting, or a similiar situation, but they're not something that most people need to own as pets. And since we can't really say "OK this person can own them, but that one can't" , a ban makes sense to me.

David

 

bans are a little tuff and excessive but in some cases are the only thing to do. what it boils down to is people taking responsibility for their actions. if you have a dog like that you need to take the time to either train the dog correctly or make shure to take the proper steps to inshure that no one can be in direct contact with the dog unless you have control of it. i had a german bred rotty for about 5 years, in that time with constant training i could take him off his leash and walk down the street with out him taking off due to a distraction. the kids would hang all over him pull his ears, nose, tail, feet what ever when he had enough he would move to an area away from the kids. i never had a problem when people came over he would bark but that was it. the only time he would get nasty was if i told him to protect then he would get a little on the scarry side but not stupid. if some one grabbed me he would stand up and wait to see what i did. i never had a problem with him and that came from years of training. i think if you are willing to dedicate the proper amounts of time needed to train an animal and educate your self about that animal great but if you don't want to or don't have the time for that type of animal don't get it. if you do then you should be prepared to be responisable for that animal's actions.

 

I hate when so called "educated" people label a dog as a bad breed. Most anything a dog does is a learned behavior. Now if a human teaches a dog to fight or attack and it does as it was taught its the dogs fault not the owners.....WHY? Look up the facts about dog attacks and you will be suprised at what you find. Labs, shepards and even cocker spaniels are guilty of many more attacks that a pit. I really wish more people would educate themselves before passing judgement on such a wonderful breed. I have owned labs, shepards, dalmations and an Akita, none of them had the intelligence or temperment of my pit. If your interested in fact heres a start Http://www.devianart.com/view/11454716/

there are a bunch of links after the video, do your own research. And make an educated decision based on what you learn not by jumping on the bandwagon and following ignorance. There is no such thing as a bad breed, its a bad owner.

 

79 trailer not only is it bad owners it's also bad media. your right it's it's not the dog but the owner. what people see is what's on the news and what's on the news is the small picture not the whole picture

 

To me the news has become almost useless. They blow most things out of proportion just to gain viewers. They are getting almost as bad as some of those rag newspapers that feature all those folks who have been abducted by aliens

 

Not easy, is it? I know- there aren't bad dogs, just bad owners. The problem with Pit Bulls (and Rotties) is that it takes a special type of owner to train and manage the dog properly and safely. They're especially poor choices for novice dog owners, who don't have a clue what they are getting into.

The Pit Bull presents special issues- some experts recommend starting with an adult dog- never a pup. Why? They're by nature aggressive towards other animals (which could be you, BTW). While some of the aggression can be trained away, a lot of it is "hard wired" into the genetic makeup, and it's impossible to know what your dogs real personality is until it's all grown up. Those who don't believe in canine genetics need to try to teach a sight hound how to fetch, or a retriever how to chase game. It's educational.

I know there are folks that refuse to put a finger on a particular breed, but these statistics might make you think otherwise:

*From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.

*Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks in 1997 and 1998, 67% involved unrestrained dogs on the owner's property; 19% involved unrestrained dogs off the owner's property; 11% involved restrained dogs on the owner's property; and 4% involved a restrained dog off the owner's property.

*Annually in the United States there are approximately 20 human fatalities directly resulting from a dog attack; this number is miniscule compared with human fatalities caused by gunshot (approximately 12,000 annually), accidents (approximately 100,000 annually) or health related disease processes

and finally, something homeowners should keep in mind.

*According to the Insurance Information Institute, dog bites accounted for about one-quarter of all claims on homeowner's insurance, costing more than $321 million in 2003. In 2002, the latest year for which numbers are available, the average claim for a dog bite was $16,600.

*Dog attacks account for one-third of all liability claims on homeowners' insurance policies. According to the Western Insurance Information Service, the insurance industry paid out more than $1 billion in dog-bite claims in 1998 alone.

 

Also forgot to mention that the average bite pressure of a big dog is around 200 p.s.i.

Average bite pressure for a pit is around 1,200; and they lock on.

I know certain cities do have bans on these breeds.

 

out of all of those statistics do they give you the age of the owner. i think you will find that most of those cases are with either younger or older ( above 60 ) owners. the other thing that comes into play with those statistics are those are only the dog bites that are reported. i have been bitten by a lot of smaller dogs than i have by larger ones. german shepards have the worst bite of 90 percent of all dogs why do you think the police use them. that doesn't mean we should ban them just try to understand them better. polarbear you are right it takes some one who is ready to spend at LEAST 4 hours a day training. i spent about 4 hours a day with my dog and some times up to ten a day on weekends.

 

I guess if you can’t ban the misinformed Human who wants to own one, then I guess the only alternative is to ban the breed.

Hmmm.....

 

If anyone out there lives in a city that bans pits, please post and tell us how it's working out.

I'm just curious.

I used to have a pit mix, but gave her up because I wasn't properly trained to train her.

 

I'd definatley feel like if they were banned, nothing would be terribly out of line. There's not a need for this type of dog in everyday people's environment. They're genetically built to be agressive. I agree with Rocketscience. Looks like the only alternative to banning the idiots is ban their ability to get their hands on the dog they're making dangerous: for themselves, and for the neighbors.

Ryan

 

I see there is a lot of rectoric on here about how that pit bulls dont kill people, only untrained people kill people and that is a interesting idealology indeed. A few years back on my street, a family two houses down from us owned a PB. It was kept unchained (no dog should be chained and unsocialized, it makes them even meaner) ) in a huge backyard that was bordered by a 6 ft wooden plank fence. One day our mail lady was doing her daily routine of walking door to door, dropping mail in peoples mailboxes on their front doorway. As she had just exited the front porch of this PB owners house and had gotten onto the sidewalk, the PB crashed thru a weakened fence plank and attacked the mail lady from behind. ...


We had heard this dogs routine daily as she dropped the mailbox door, because this PB could be heard up and down the street , howling, growling , barking and basically sounding like it would eat alive , what ever was screwing with its owners mailbox. Well, yes, some one said that PB's are smart and I agree, because this one finally chewed on a weakened plank and gots its way with the maillady. She is on a federal disability pension now, a once productive healthy lady, just earning her keep. Now she is getting to live in pain daily, with more and more plastic surgeries scheduled...

That maillady should not have been put in that situation, as NO human being should, just because people want to own these dogs. Yes, it is ludicrous that any dog breed be banned, but as in this case, the owner was doing what they thought was in keeping the dog in safe keeping. So, should a set of laws be enacted to any PB owner, that would permit the animal control department to inspect ALL PB owners property for damaged fence boards or unsafe housing of PB's ? NO way ! . So how can a person be assured that PB's are kept in an environment to where they cannot harm people. ? IT is TOO COMPLICATED people, to assure that every person that owns a PB has the education , knowledge, training, etc, to own these dogs. Since when does the ownership of a four legged animal take priority over the lives of unsuspecting humans anyway ???....

This mail lady was forced to go to a early retirement , yet is living what is supposed to be her FUN years, with pain and surgeries ALL caused by a owner that SHOULD have known better. ( yes, the PB owners are paying dearly for their dogs actions, and for as LONG as that woman is living, and she was only 40 too ) . And on the same note, I worked with two guys that had daughters age 8 and 9, that were attacked by cocker spaniels. They were mauled and scarred, but cockers do not have the aggression, biting and locking power of PB's, therefore do not have as much killing potential. ..

People need to think about what I have posted here, it is a true event, and it should give a prospective PB owner food for thought. The person they chew on, will not be the only one paying the price for that person owning the PB. And yes, I am a dog lover, and I know what constitutes dog breeding and the various traits and personalities each breed has. So I know what pet responsibility for each breed is about. My wife and I bought a female cinammon chow as a pup. In her second year she developed glycauma in her eyes and went blind. We loved her more than anything, but as she become scared of the forever darkness, and was starting to snap at people that just walked by, we had her put to sleep. I greived more for that dogs death than I have most people that I have known to pass on ...

All jmo and ...

PS, I hope the mods can take this good thread to the pg-13 forum. It is a thread that is going to get heated ( a persons right to own a dog, super fast car, or exotic pets, always does ) , I would rather see it moved than closed. It is a real to life daily topic, that people could learn from either pro or con.

 

Well I thought about not posting, but I will anyway. I own 2 pits, I have a fenced yard and I spend time with them take them into mountains etc. They are both "blues" and brother and sister. I dont yell at them or hit them all I have to do is "look" and they listen.
First: Pits have no large physical differences as far as their jaws. They do not lock, they are not capable of ridiculously high pressure bites.
http://pitbulls.jentown.com/pitchara...cteristics.htm
What pit bulls do have is high strength for their size, and a very stubborn attitude.

It all comes down to personal responsibility mentioned above. Unfortunately there are too many people that dont get it. So what is the solution? I would really hate to see the entire breed banned (im trying not to rant too much so i'll leave that alone). I think much stricter breeding is a good start, go to a kennel anywhere how many pits? People just keep breeding them, but again that is personal responsibility. There should also be no tolerance at all for dogfighters. It is a very easy way to make money, and we all know people like easy money, especially irresponsible people. Maybe some kind of ownership program? I certainly don't have all the answers, its just pathetic that everything else gets blamed first over humans.

I'm sure most cities will adopt a ban because it is the only easy way to solve the problem. I guess i'll move. Anyway thats it for now. You guys don't know how hard it was for me to not rant. I deleted way more than I left in there.

PS I have also been bit more times by little dogs they make me laugh. So aggressiveness without strength is tolerated. Did you guys know that the poster boy for U.S.A. in WWI was a pit bull?

 

I was friends with a guy that had a 1/2 pit and 1/2 dober mix. You would go to his front door and the dog would push the screen out as far as it would go (barking and growling). Once he hollered at you to come in, the dog shut up, and went and lay down. He had a tree in the yard, that he would point to a limb between 7 and 8 foot off the ground, and the dog would run, propell it's bounce off the tree, and hang from the limb until comanded to drop. He had only one person come in that house unannounced once, and they found him up that tree with the dog hanging from that limb, eyeing him. I was always told, just hope you never hear a snarl. Once he said hi, the dog would let you pet him and play fetch with a ball with you. Well trained.

Neighbor from hell
Had this "figure it out" kid, living next to me, vandilizing and stealing from me. He finally got busted and moved out (with his mom who was engaged). His stepfather moves back in (only name on the title) fixes the house back up, and rents it a few years later back to him. We have a shared driveway! First thing he does is try to block me both in and out, steals from me again, threatens me, tells his dogs "jokingly" to sic me, vandilizes my property, etc. The dogs are going nuts anytime I am in my yard or driveway, or the shared part. They go through the cheap breaking down fence and come at me on my property. I stop and turn and face them, no sudden movement on either side, his girlfriend hears the dogs and peaks out and hollers at them, then trys to appollogize. I explain that he's threatened me with them and I have every right to shoot them if they ever do anything close to that. She never tells him. The dogs go after the mail carrier, a neighbors kid (neighbors refuse to press charges), utility people (he gets power shut off for a while), appraiser. Neighbors call on the barking and animal control makes weekly visits (of which I am the only one accused of, and I never called on the barking, just the threats and attempted attack) , it's not until they go after his daughter, that he finally does something. We've had words and he know that he and his family have no reason to trespass on my property, and I explain to him that any aggressive action by himself, may mean lethal force by myself to protect myself. I also said as far as I was concerned, he should have a bullet in his head. And he can't understand why I don't like or be friendly to him.