After reading the GM stats regarding the overwhelming success of their latest Gm employee discount program I wonder if anyone at Ford reads the news? My local Ford dealer is awash with F-150 Lariats (which are "loaded up" with options). He's livid that he can't "move" these units due to the LACK OF competing incentives that GM is now offering.

 

I wouldnt call the program an 'overwhelming success'. They are desperately trying to move merchandise, at a very small markup. Ford is going to have issues selling trucks this year, but who wouldnt after selling a Million units the previous year? Maybe your local dealer shouldnt order so many Lariats packed to the hilt with options. Maybe they should look at increasing their market research budget for their area.

 

The greater the incentives, the lower the resale value. I'd rather have some resale value and Ford actually make a profit on vehicles than just push more units.

 

They (F & GM) have been "giving them away" for years now. And they're still lOSING mkt. share to their foreign counterparts. What are you going to do? Hide, or compete in the ONLY way you know? People can wishful think all they want but the facts are the facts. LOSING mkt. share year in year out ain't the stuff businesses thrive on. Americans are now "into" what they construe as BETTER values. They truly believe the foreign makers provide a better "bang for ones buck." And that's why they're buying them. Incentives are band aids that only work for so long. And the "string" has been stretched beyond anyone's imagination. BOTH GM and F have legacy woes. The revenues are OK but the "other side" of the ledger (expenses) ain't good. And incentives are a COST of doing business. But it's NOT the kind that one wants to rely on to better the "bottom line." What's is going to change this mindset? You tell me.

 

Ford is not offering the rebates because they are not needed. Sure some dealers suffer, but not all.

 

The employee discount from GM is a joke. Its no better than the prices they have been offering for a long time, which have been substantially discounted.

But never underestimate the mindset of the average consumer to think they are getting a good deal, when in reality they are not.

Reminds me of their "Professional Grade" marketing campaign that came out. It was amusing, because they were the same cars and trucks that were built before GM decided they were Professional Grade. But they still break down the same. Every time I see a GM or Chevy driving down the road with only one daytime running light working I smile and say to myself.."Now that's Professional Grade!"

And a final cheap shot from the peanut gallery. Have you noticed how Chevy has resorted to only showing commercials of their trucks that feature images of only the front grill and headlights? That's because the grill is the only new thing on those trucks in years. From the side, they are the same old boring truck thats been around for years.

And one more, if you don't mind. Did you see the Silverado commericial where its filmed at night and flanked by two flashy motorcycles? MOTORCYCLES!!! Ha ha. They have to surround the truck with motorcycles to make it look sexy.

 

texan,

i thought i was the only one who noticed the running light/light issues that i see on a TON of chevy trucks on the road... it's crazy.... almost every chevy truck or truck based vehicle (yukon etc.) i see they always have a lamp out in the front.... it's so common that if i spot a truck from the side i HAVE to look to see if ALL of their lights are working in the front...it's crazy...

the GM employee price kinda reminds me of Ford's X-Plan deal..... it's not really doing anything for anyone as the market is so bad for them now that they sell at or below invoice anyway.... i guess it all depends on how their doing financially....

 

Guys-

A couple of points:
1. GM started 0% financing and found that they couldn't sell anything when they tried to charge a percentage afterwards. The employee discount, in some form, won't be going away.
2. It's not the product, it's the service. We love our trucks on this forum, but have plenty of stories of terrible dealers.
3. GM is offering big discounts because no one really wants their products.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

 

Sort of off topic, but in followup to what bigtexan99 was saying about the commercials that gm has put out, my favorite one was when they had all their new cars run up onto the moving car carrier. That was fine, but a careful eye will notice that the truck pulling the carrier was a Freightliner, which is owned by Diamler Chrysler--OOP's. Later commercials featured a Pete pulling the trailer.

Back on topic, GM is doing the employee discount beacuse their sales are hurting, or at least thats my view on it.

 

i think simmy hit it on the nail with his point #3....

no one wants Chevy products, especially their outdated trucks.... it's not "An American Revolution".... their product line sux...... it confuses customers...

i hate to see any major American Car manufacturer struggle..... even if's it GM......I love my F-150 (my first Ford) but it worries me that GM might go down the tubes... lets hope they pull out of it and consolidate their product lineup....

as an American I have a sense of pride in the fact that we can take steel and build automobiles..... that we can still manufacture goods as a nation....

lets hope this last great American manufacturing industry doesn't find itself in the same boat as the TV or textile manufacturing industries where it's all done overseas........

i also seriously think people need to take a close hard look at how the unions factor into this equation..... a union shouldn't exist solely to exist.. there should be compelling reasons they are needed..... i am afraid they have become a part of the equation why our american car manufacturers are at a unfair disadvantage.....

 

I was reading over this whole topic and came to your reply. I work for Ford Motor Company and am a part of the union. My whole family has been in the union from the time they started at ford, from being a rep at our local. There are many "compelling Reasons" that we need to keep them around in our Auto Manufacturing, the reason that Toyota is paying what they are paying people to work in the US is because of our UAW. Think that if Ford/GM wasn't paying their people 20+ an hour, do you think Toyota would be paying their people 20+? Nope, they are doing it to keep jobs> You take away our union and you might have driven down the cost of cars, but also you've taken away a lot of people's money.
As far as a union to exist solely to exist, i don't understand what your saying. Have you worked in a union shop? Do you understand what union does?
I being in the UAW will say that we are well taken care as being auto workers, but it is because of our UAW and what they fight for.

 

Dejablue,

I think we all can agree that at one point in time unions were a necessary part of labor advancement in this country. However, if you look at the airline industry, the auto industry, city and state governments, etc. you notice that many of these companies cannot stay afloat because of the pressure put on by the unions. What is essentially happening is that the unions are demanding such high pay and benefits that their is no way the companies can make good on them forever (ESPECIALLY PENSIONS!!!!), so the unions end up killing the company they work for.

I dont think the unions do it on purpose. I think they just want what is best for the workers. However, the logic no longer works. You cannot promise people something that doesnt exist (ie pensions, social security), when that thing cannot exist because the company cannot operate as a free market company (or in social security, they use the funds for something else). When the companies have to pay you for NOT MAKING CARS, it is good to you, but terrible for the company and risks their financial stability in the future, as well as yours. For a good example of how unions can mess things up really bad notice that GM's losses last quarter/year would not have been losses if it were not for the union pension plan. Or look at the San Diego fiscal problems.

Like I said before, unions used to be great. They did a lot of things to make life in this country better. But now, the benefits have gone too far, and the end of many companies/governments/etc is very close because of them...

 

Did you have the choice to be in the union when you were hired to work for Ford?

If one has the option, and chooses not to, what is the downside? Less Pay? Less Benefits?

Do you feel Ford as a company (outside of the UAW) is incapable of providing a safe and adequate working environment or incapable of providing competitive pay and benefits (any company for that matter).

Do you think UAW executives are more concerned about their members or their members dues, which consequently line their pockets?

What is the breakdown of the dues that UAW members pay? How much of each dollar is used to pay UAW admnistrative costs and where does the rest go?

I'm sorry I don't agree with you on this issue. I work for the largest company in the world and not a single person belongs to a union. The reason being because the company takes care of it's own and provides adequate benefits and pay, along with a safe and healthy work environment, regardless of the mis-information the press would have others believe.

Unions served their purpose, their days are numbered.

 

As far as Toyota goes... yeah they pay their workers roughly the same as you get paid, but they do not get paid on down times, and their retirement is not as good. Also, since the factories are not unionized they can use more automation (ie robotics). This saves tons of money over the long run, and increases quality.

What does that mean for their cars? They can put more money into each car because they didnt have to pay as many workers and their benefits. That meanst they can make a better car with better materials and better engineering for the same price.

The consumer sees that and decides they would rather have the better car for the better price. Not as many people are as proud of their country (they are idiots) as they used to be, so they do not have the loyalty they once did. I have personally persuaded 2 people to buy Fords (F150 and Escape) in the last 3 months instead of foreign cars ( a Titan and a Jetta ), but it doesnt matter because they still have in their mind that Toyota or Honda makes a better car. Fords use of higher quality materials in the new F150 has saved that trucks life, but they need to do it all the way across their product line to show consumers they can produce high quality products at affordable prices. However, that is limited by the clout and pressure put on by the unions.

 

Don't usually say much in the forums but do read them often, however, I find this is one that I have to reply to and not sure if this is the spot. You folks can express your opinions about the unions, wages, etc. and sure those costs contribute to a portion of the mfg. overhead. My thoughts? (and I know no one asked) is that I have been driving Fords for better that forty years and they, like the other two big companies used to make a decent product. However, if you want to sell vehicles in this day and age, give the consumer a quality, reliable product with basic bells and whistles at a decent price, and throw in a lot better mileage and they will sell. My STX listed for 28,600 and has nothing in it to brag about the wife. I purchased this one because of the incentives and got what I paid for. I even had to modify my defroster system because in the winter weather they suck. A lot of technical advancements have been made material wise to lighten and increase longevity but other than to keep up with emission standards nothing has been done to increase mileage of the gasoline engined vehicle. Or for that mastter, how about a true overdrive or an extra gear transmission. The day of the short work commute is over, most folks drive many miles on the highway to go back and forth, let hem address that issue. All three of the big companies have been making vehicles for a lot of years and none of them have figured it out that you cannot live on yesterdays reputation, you have to keep up with the times. Remember the saying "if you snooze you lose" ... the big three are fast asleep. But I like many others will still insist on American made. I would like to leave with one question...what is the "true" markup of a vehicle? that is a question that nobody seems to have an answer for. Thanks for letting me vent.