I didn't mention that I was a service writer for Ford for a few years when I was a kid in my twenties.

I also have been a part owner of a small lot, not new, but used cars. The guy who bankrolled it, cut me a deal as a silent partner.
I used to do the buying at two different auctions, and would advise on problems with the cars.
Didn't have to get my hands dirty, as he had a couple of mechanics. But like most mechanics they knew beans about diagnostics, plus they didn't have the business sense to know when to NOT fix a problem, just dump it back on the auction.

During that couple of years I spent rather more time than I should have talking, drinking coffee and hanging out with him. He had sold a Chevy dealership when he turned 60. He retired but within six months he was bored to death. So he opened this small (50-100 unit) lot, actually just for something to do. His wife didn't want him around the house. Those of us retired know about this...

Anyway, I am sure it's changed a lot in the last ten years, but on the flip side, I remain unconvinced that the owners are buying these dealerships for megabucks and then not making a dime on them...

The local Chevy dealership has changed owners three times in the last 14 years, but each time it was sold, there was a bidding war to buy it. And the guy that owns it now seems pretty happy with it...And this place is fighting to overcome a VERY bad rep from three owners back.
Perhaps all the dealerships are barely make any money, and the banks, as a public service, are just letting them stay open...
Oh well.
Chris

 

Just one small thing I noticed as I read, through these posts on this magnificent site. If it wasn't for the union, you might not be driving the ford your driving today. Price is only making a difference because, just like any other industry, the foreign market just simply builds it cheaper. Mostly with labor. Its not because of unions. If we hadn't let the foreign car industry(competition) in we probably wouldn't have this discussion. Why? Because then it would have just been accepted as the American way. Just my 2 cents.

 

I was a United Auto Worker member. I worked in both a engine plant and a foundry for Henry. All I can say is, without a union these $30,000 vehicles would probably cost about $15,000. The labor waste is out of this world and in most cases down right ridiculous. My dad kept us fed and shoed with Henry money also, so I should not complain too much. Good Luck!

 

Yeah, I grew up steak one year and bologna the next few. And I'm not starting a ruckus, Ruckus. I'm kinda indifferent on union subject. Its the price that gets me. And the price is not union. Lear just announced going out of the country. They figured instead of paying their american employees $15.00hr. they would only pay $1.50 in another country. Is this because of the union or price? Anyhow, I only drive what I can afford. My 2 newest vehicles are 1990.

 

220k, If I had to guess, I would say that if the union had been more reasonable they would not have to go out of the country. However, then there is also the ridiculous salaries of the upper management and CEO's, CFO's etc. What can we do? Except what we were dealt with and make the best of what we have? Try to be happy and take care of the ones we love. Good Luck!

 

Actually, Lear was probably just dodging lawsuits. More lawsuits per business in the USA than the rest of the world combined. Google under lawsuit and world. Ouch.

As to 15.00 hour? What, for sweepers? Around here, a guy dragging cable gets 24.00. A union employee makes quite a bit more than that. I have a friend that joined the pipe fitters union, and they pay him more an hour for being a helper, than most mid-level managers of 10-20 units of retail outlets.

He seldom goes on jobs though, they keep expecting him to show up, and sometimes work. He just doesn't do the 'hard work' thing.

Union plant, 50k a year to carry cement bags. Non-union plant close by they pay 30k a year for the same job, with less benefits, and they have no problem filling positions.
Guess which plant is not making money...
Oh well.
Chris

 

Ok, I'm done with this. I was just trying to come to a point that maybe majority of us don't make enough to afford a new vehicle.
There are so many variables here, that a rocket sceintist couldn't figure it out.

Ruckus, I wasn't applying I was unhappy, was I? I apologize it read that way.
I am very much a happy camper. See I can prove it.

 

220k, I did not think that at all. Don't Worry, Be Happy!

 

Ok I guess now I just feel like beinga knucklehead. I work for coke and we are non union but funny enough we make more than the union plants the pretty much let it be non a while back 8-10 yrs ago that if they tried to vote in a union they would shut down the plant, I'm non union i have good benefits and good pay could things be better? yes . ppl need to start taking a little more pride in our country. our Goverment needs to stop screwing us over ! and I mean both the parties when i heard that congress had just voted them selves a "cost of living raise" that was something like a 100k more a yr I think that was what the number was I just about blew a gasket!! Personally I think our goverment needs to make a mirror law so that if a country adds taxes and tarifs of 25% to a amercian product coming to their country we do the same to theirs coming here. and I don't want to hear that toyotas's are now being mad in amercia the money still goes to japan lets see that 25k corrola jump up to 35 k and see how many they sell then

 

A couple points, the pay has little to do with unions and union costs.

It's the inability to get fired for doing a poor job. Unions haven't been at the top of the pay, or actual benefits for a long time. You don't get rich working for a union, you just don't get fired if you screw off.

You can get fired if they shut your plant down, or some places you can get fired for major infractions. If they have a strong local, and a strong union, you can't be fired just for being a screw-up, or being lazy. That's where the major problems lie.

On the cost of living thing, every time they get a raise, the country gets mad.
Problem is, you don't get the kind of people you want for a pay scale that requires you to sleep in the office, or bunk four to a room, like they were doing in 1994. Actually happend. The new crop that year was the first in decades that were NOT professional politicians.

If you are a congress critter, you are required to have two domiciles, one in DC, the other in your home district. If you are trying to live on what seems a fair wage in Kansas, or Wyoming, it means you don't see your wife and kids for months at a time, and you will sleep on a cot behind your desk.

A fair rent on a 'townhouse' (read cheap condo) with inadequate security in the District can be about 2000 month. We are talking shack.

So we starve the congress critters, and in a few years we end of with three kinds of Congressperson.

One, very rich, he can afford to do it.
Two, crooked as a dog's hind leg. He gets rich doing it.
Three, worse, power happy, he will sleep on a grate, as long as he has power over you.

If we want professional people, people that will represent what a small business man, or a homeowner wants, we need guys that have been, or are small business men, and homeowners.
That's sorta the way the system was set up to work...

Now if we want lawyers, and other parasites to run things, then cut the wages to nothing. Lots of rich lawyers, rich slumlords (my states senators for example) and guys on the make will be happy to take it.
That system was used for years. Don't think I liked it.


On the 'mirror' thing. Been proposed to death. Lots to like about it, but it goes both ways. The US has been caught lately using unfair practices against other countries.
I don't mind, a little each way, keeps everyone on their toes.

And to be fair, we smack a lot of other countries business around pretty good. We are the 600 lb guerrilla.
I also like that.

Keep in mind, that in spite of the attempts by the Main Stream Media to trash the economy, our economy kicks everyone else's butt.

Check the numbers. Euro trash wish they had our unemployment rate.
Sure India is benefiting a lot from us, heck soon they will have an economy almost as good as ours was in 1936... I ain’t' losing sleep about it.

I ran into some Indian programmers, while I was doing some testing for Hughes.
They program on a piece of paper. They were thrilled that they got bottled water to drink at work.

There was one computer in the whole facility.

Talked and e-mailed a lot with a couple of them. Don't worry about your job going there, both those guys are coming here, and we will be lucky to have them.
Legal, talented hard working immigrants we can always use.

Just for the sake of argument, check out Japan Vs. US trade. They ship us more than they buy. On the other hand, the average Nippon household buys almost twice as much from us as our average household buys from them!

Thing is, there are three times as many of us... So they are not 'holding back' and refusing to buy our stuff.
Now if you wanted to use Red China as an example...

Well, here we go with another political thread.

Oh well, I'll quit if you will. Or I probably will anyway.
I hate the hard feelings that these darn threads seem to foster.
HAPPY FOURTH EVERYONE
Chris

 

I think that everyone needs to take more pride in this country as well!

Americans think that American products suck, but did anybody else notice that GM And Ford were ranked the HIGHEST in long term quality for the 2002 model year (JD Power & Associates)? The beat everybody, including Toyota. It has been moving that way for years. The most reliable car last year was the Mustang! How do we wake all of these people up.

Oh, and people keep arguing it is not the union costs that make the price high, but the fact you cannot fire them for being lazy. Well, if you have a lazy/bad worker, your product is bad, which means you have to fix it later (warranty work) and/or less people buy your product. Both of these things cost the company money, which raises prices.

As far as the guy who works at a Coke plant and makes a good wage, you are correct. Unions are no longer needed to get good pay and benefits. Thats why we really dont need them anymore. All they provide is a place for people to have a secure job that is almost impossible to get fired from, which hurts the products, and then the reputation of the company and our country. I know not all union workers are lazy, but a bad apple spoils the barrell.

 

I did see that survey. GM had 19 of the top vehicles and Ford had 5. Toyota and Honda only had one each. Amazing and impressive. If they can do that year over year across all the product lines ... then they will win back customer/market share.

It was a great showing and definately a step in the right direction.

 

Ford just announced they will match GM with new "family plan" -

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/050705/autos_ford_discounts.html

 

My guess is blue book on the o4-o5's out there now will drop proportionately, overnight. Hopefully not the service, however if they overfill my 4.6L during oil change again...

-Ron

 

Have you ever owned a new or newer Silverado?
Its like Ford never had a bulb run out. A bulb to replace a daytime running light cost about a buck and they made it so simple to change its almost rediculous. Now a days as long as you maintain your vehicle whether it be a Ford, Chevy, Gmc, or Dodge you are probably going to get 100,000 miles easy, unless you happen to get a lemon. I don't think we should rip our own soil, its the foreign vehicles that are steeling market share. Just my opinion!!