Here's a link to instructions on getting the codes when you CEL is not working.

http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=13

It has a link a bottom of page to run through a troubleshooting checklist if you PCM has no stored codes.

 

More info on the TFI, or EDIS as named here.

http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AF...59862/34849791

 

Found some other procedures for testing the ignition circuit. The top link on this page is for no start EEC-IV controls. There's a EDIS link towards the bottom. Shows you how to trace out and ohm the different parts of the circuit. Remember to pull the codes before ou disconnect the PCM.

http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AF...0217/104736396

 

Thanks again for all your guys help. I am going to have It towed to a shop and checked out because I just can not figure out what has went wrong and the guy that fixed It In the first place will not help me so I have no other choice..

 

Well I had It checked out at a shop.. Copst me over $100. Dialtone you were right In the first place and If I would have only explored It further. I have a exhaust manifold leak. which Is causing my coil to burn out. It has also burned out my Ignition and starter wires. The shop was not sure how It happened but one of the exhaust manifold bolts was broke off and they wanted $920 to fix the exhaust manifold leak and fix all the damage to the Ignition and starter wires. Now my question Is what can I do?? I got a hold of the person that fixed It In the first place and I told him what happened and of course he had nothing to do with It. He agreed to fix It for me but now he Is taking his sweet time.. He has had It 4 days now and from what I can tell has not touched It.
I have had my truck back just over 2 months now after this person replaced the engine and told me It was fixed and running great.. From day one I have had a overheating problem, trouble starting, losing power even after having the alternator checked and replacing the battery and now finding out that a exhaust manifold leak might be causing 90% of my problems and theres a good chance that the bolt was broken off duing the Installation of the exhaust manifold which means he knew about It and did nothing to fix It.. What can I Do??? I have kept all reciepts that I got from him for working on It. I just want It fix right as promised..

 

Interesting. I guess i'd have to see it to believe it. The coil is about 8 inches above the top of the manifold. It would take a hell of a lot of heat from that far away to melt the coil. But it could be a combination of shorting out spark plug wires and other ignition control wires to then fry the coil. I know the routing of the control wires is a bit arduous around this area. If it is as bad as described, you may want to think about a new wire harness, at least for the ignition components.

As far as the mechanical side, if the engine was rebuilt, then yes the exhaust manifolds were removed and replaced. Not sure if you or the mechanic did this. When I pulled mine off, I had to use a dremel and cut off wheel to rmove the heads from about 1/2 the bolts. Another 2 or 3 sheared off and needed a stud extractor. There might have been 2 or 3 that acually came out like a normal bolt. Not sure why but Ford used stainless steel bolts here. They stick and gall to just about any other metal. So I'm thinking that problems with the old bolts may have stripped a hole in the head. Then when installing new bolts, you tighten them up and they don't go any further but haven't really compressed the gasket. There are gaskets right? Ford didn't use them initially but you should upon reinstall unless you get them remachined flat.

If I were you I would be looking over this guy's shoulder. Maybe even take the truck back and start legal proceedings. Not sure I'd want him touching my truck after seeing what shoddy work has been done. Check the web for locations/phone numbers of he local Bureau of Automotive Repair - they can help with disputes.

 

You only have 2 options as I see it.
1. Make the oroginal person fix things right. Most likely, fixing the broken bolt will require the removal of the head on that side of the engine, getting a machine shop to drill out / remove the broken bolt, reassembly of the engine and repair of the other items.
May be very difficult to get them to do it all right unless they are very customer oriented, but keep on them till they will do no more.
2. After that, select a GOOD shop, and get the remaining items fixed as you can, dealing with the most serious first.
Goof luck
Dialtone

 

Well now what do I do?
As I said I took It back to the guy that worked on It In the first place. for the record this guy works out of his garage but I had a few people tell me to take It to him that he did great work thats why I did It..
Now he Is telling me that there Is nothing wrong. He Is telling me that the only broken bolt Is on the right side were the exhaust pipe and the manifold come together not on the manifold were It mounts to the engine and that I do not have any fried wires. The only other problem he can find Is that the new coil Is missing on 2 cylinders but It Is running again..

Who do I believe?

I got him telling me nothing Is wrong and I have a well know shop with real ASE Certified mechanics telling me I have a exhaust manifold leak. which Is causing my coil to burn out which also burned up my Ignition and starter wires, $920 dollars In damages.. Also the shop that looked at It did not want to work on It. They also told me to take It back to the person that worked on It In the first place...

I am going to get another coil tomorrow and try to get It away from this guy but I believe It Is not fixed.. I could really use your guys option on this..

 

Is he willing to fix the broken exhaust bolts that he admitted were bad, and is he willing to admit that the exhaust leak could have fried the coil(s)?

 

So if nothing is wrong with it let him prove it to you. Why did the coils burn up? Which cylinders are not firing? The coil pack fires in pairs: 4/3, 6/2, 5/1. If the 2 not firing are not paired like this, then 4 would not be firing and I guess he would be lieing.

Is he saying you need a new coil and then all 6 will fire? If so, put one on and then let him see it burn out again.

And so if there is no broken manifold bolt, didn't the other shop show it to you? How do you know they were telling the truth? My sister in law brought her car by for me to look at because she had some bad oil leakage. A shop told her she needed a new oil pan gasket and her transmission had to be rebuilt. Mind you she had no drivability problems. Total cost was some $2,000. Well after I degreased the bottom of the chasis and engine, started it up and engine oil, not transmission oil, poured out of the rear main seal. This is a $5 seal. Estimate was from a SAE approved shop too.

By the way - where are your codes? If 2 cyliders are not firing you're going to have a collage of codes. Surely this guy must have a $30 code reader, at least. Once you know what the root cause of coil burn out is, it will be real easy to understand how it happened and then who is at fault and then ultimately responsible.

I think it's time you start taking this into your own hands and drive for answers. We can help diagnos issues for you, sure no problem. But we need the data. I think we've done a pretty good job with what you have provided so far. I think you have a bad wire somewhere and someone needs to find out where to look by viewing the PCM codes. But that's all I can tell you at this point.

One thing we can't/won't do is guide you through any legal actions. Who said what, what contracts were signed (repair orders)...is all up to you. What would I do? Well I never let anyone work on my car unless it is something I legally can't do (R12 refrigerant) or don't have the equipment for (alignments). So I guess I've never thought about it. Good luck.

 

You guys have went out of your way to help me and I give you so many thanks for all of your help. I got the new Coil put on and as soon as he started It, It was missing bad with the new Coil, I reset the computer and same thing. so now he has seen with his own 2 eyes that there Is a problem and has agreed to fix It. He Is now trying to get his hands on a code reader to check the codes which I have already tried.. From what he can tell without getting any codes from the computer Is that It Is running full rich. What ever that means..

 

Well sure it'll look rich with 2 cylinders not firing. Here's how it works. One coil feeds a cylinder on both cylinder banks. Coil pack has 3 coils so 3x2=6 cylinders. Since no spark, the air/fuel mixture enters the exhaust and travels past the O2 sensor. Once engine gets to 170 degrees, the PCM looks at the O2 sensor signal. Now since the O2 sensor just got flooded with oxygen tht was never burned, it senses as "lean" - sees a lot of O2 therefore the mixture must not have enough fuel. So the PCM says, we need to add more fuel and it increases the pulse width of the injectors (open for a longer time). Now the PCM does not know which cylinder is actually lean so it juices up all three on a bank (O2 sensors on both right and left banks in your exhaust tubes). And since your coil not firing is affecting both banks, this PCM logic is ocurring on both sides and thus now the PCM is telling all cylinders to go richer. Makes sense?

So when you get the codes you might as well ignore the O2 sensor ones for now. We already know the mixture is off because your coil isn't working. Your going to see some PIP or SPOUT errors. These are signals between the PCM and the EIDS. The EIDS will run the car without the PIP or SPOUT signals which are used to optimize spark advance curves. So that's why the car does still run. But I think you'll see some errors there. The ignition system itself is not that complicated. Your mechanic guy will likely have to break out the wire harness and check for continuity and shorts. There's probable 10 or 15 wires tops.

Check this link for more general details about your system. You can do a web search for Explorer ignitions or EEC-IV computers for more info. Nothing wrong with being armed with information when you go talk to mechanics. The dealers hate working with me I tell ya.

http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/

 

This is a great thread!

 

Would be even better if we get the car fixed. I think James is getting education to the level he never knew he needed.

 

By the way, if you keep disconnecting the battery, you're not going to see any codes. The codes don't necessarily remain "on" when the problem is present. They are outputs that can occur if the PCM reads an input that is not in its range. So you need to run the thing for a while, at least until it is warmed up where it should transition itnto warm idle mode. Then you should be getting all the codes that would be sent. And remember what I said about the O2 codes above. You also mentioned your CEL didn't work - probably burned out bulb - not surprising given all this - but don't let this mechanic tell you everything is OK because your CEL never came on.