Hot Fuel return
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New User
Joined: Jun 2003
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Hot Fuel return
I have an 83 460 with an edelbrock carb that I have to use starting fluid to get started. it sits for about two weeks at a time before I use it. It will restart all day long after the initial start up. I have a clear fuel filter that never appears very full even when running. Anyone have any ideas? I was thinking of running an additional electric pump or restricting the return line so more fuel goes to the carb.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 32
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From: gainesville ga
be careful using starting fluid it is like crack very addictive.most carbs i've had won't hold pressure in line thanks to gravity. I may be wrong but it would take alot of pressure to fill up the filter they are designed to just let the fuel pass through.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 984
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From: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Try turning the key to on, but not starting the truck. Give it a 5 second count for the fuel pump to pressure the line, pump the pedal a couple of times, and then crank it over.
It's fairly normal for gas to drain back in the line a bit over time. Under constant use, this doesn't happen as much, but letting a vehical sit for a week or two at a time, it definitely can.
I would avoid using starting fluid on it. It dries the cylinders out, and allows for metal on metal contact.
You have to consider that gravity is normal. Just turning the key and hoping it will start right off if the vehical has sat won't happen. Once the pump has pressured the line, you still need to activate the accelerator pump on the carb to allow fuel into the intake manifold for that first initial start.
It's fairly normal for gas to drain back in the line a bit over time. Under constant use, this doesn't happen as much, but letting a vehical sit for a week or two at a time, it definitely can.
I would avoid using starting fluid on it. It dries the cylinders out, and allows for metal on metal contact.
You have to consider that gravity is normal. Just turning the key and hoping it will start right off if the vehical has sat won't happen. Once the pump has pressured the line, you still need to activate the accelerator pump on the carb to allow fuel into the intake manifold for that first initial start.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
Originally Posted by RR4E
Try turning the key to on, but not starting the truck. Give it a 5 second count for the fuel pump to pressure the line, pump the pedal a couple of times, and then crank it over.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Niceville, FL.
I thought all '83 trucks with the 460 have in-tank electric pumps. Mine does and has the same problem. I think it is a bad check valve in the pump (if it has one). My neighbor has an '82 E350 with a 460 and his does the same thing. Don't restrict the fuel return, it will either damage the pump or the extra pressure can overcome the carburetor inlet float valve and cause flooding or leaks.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,330
Likes: 17
From: Dryden, ON, Canada
460 trucks have electric pumps, BUT, they don't run when you turn the key on, the factory setup has it so that it runs in crank(gets power off of the I terminal on the solenoid) or once the engine has built enough oil pressure to turn on the pressure switch.
On my truck, due to a cab swap, all the stock wiring is gone, and I just have the pumps on a switch. But, what will work nicely to prime the system after the truck has sat for a while on a stock setup is taking the wire off of the I terminal on the solenoid, and hooking it to the battery + post on the solenoid, the pump will then run.
On my truck, due to a cab swap, all the stock wiring is gone, and I just have the pumps on a switch. But, what will work nicely to prime the system after the truck has sat for a while on a stock setup is taking the wire off of the I terminal on the solenoid, and hooking it to the battery + post on the solenoid, the pump will then run.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Niceville, FL.
What I'd like to find is an in-line, fuel rated, low restriction check valve to mount near the pump outlet so the fuel couldn't drain back to the tank.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,330
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From: Dryden, ON, Canada
I've found with my truck that it's the return line that needs the check valve, not the feed line. Putting in a brand new pump had no effect on the drainback(not why I changed the bump, but anyway.) I'm not bothered by the that issue, but, if I had a stock wiring setup, I can see trying to start it up after sitting for a while being a major PITA.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 40
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There is a small metal canister (where the incoming fuel supply line and return line and outlet to carb) on my 84 F250 with 460 and dual tanks. Ford calls it a "Fuel Purge Canister and Shut Off Valve", and they want around $42 for it. I am having some kind of problem with the truck staying running after it has started, so I may be having a problem with this valve sticking open to allow most of the fuel to the return... Might be your problem.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 837
Likes: 2
From: Minnesota
Originally Posted by Inwywind
I have an 83 460 with an edelbrock carb that I have to use starting fluid to get started. it sits for about two weeks at a time before I use it.
To refill the carb bowl I have a jumper wire with an alligator clip attached to the starter solenoid stud that powers the fuel pump during the crank mode. I clip this to the hot side of the solenoid or the battery + and let the fuel pump run for a while to pressurize the carb before I try to start it. It works for me.
Try doing some searches on "hot fuel option" to get a better understanding of how it works and how to use it.
Roger
Clyde S Dale, my chestnut brown & tan 5th wheel workhorse is a
1984 F250HD XLT RCLB 4X2 8600 GVW
460 (with the hot fuel option) C6 3.55's
65,500 original miles (and counting)
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
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The hot fuel return line already has a 0.040" or 0.060" orifice restrictor for the line. I think the 40 was stock and the 60 was a dealer service option. The purpose of the system was to keep the fuel in the line cooler by bypassing some to the tank so as to avoid vapor lock. The small orifice will not affect fuel delivery unless your pump is shot anyway.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Niceville, FL.
Can't see how you'd ever get "vapor lock" with an in-tank electric fuel pump. Even if the fuel were to boil in the line producing vapor, the in-tank pump should quickly push the vapor through the carburetor inlet via the float valve to be expelled through the carburetor float chamber vent thereby providing fresh fuel at the carburetor very quickly (electric pump doesn't depend on engine rpm to supply fuel at maximum rate). Cam driven mechanical pumps only provide one pump stroke for every two engine revolutions so it could take a lot of engine revolutions to pump the vapor out of the line and get enough liquid fuel to the carburetor (so-called vapor lock) to enable starting especially with a weak six volt battery in old cars. Fuel draining back to the tank on these Ford trucks (after sitting for a day or two) is a totally different problem which I think is due to a faulty pump check valve. I've never had this problem (fuel drain back) on any other vehicles with electric pumps.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
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It may be leaking around the gaskets also. My '86 would do it until I replace accelerator pump. I believe the check valve your speaking of is to let fuel vapors escape as it gets hot. I don't believe liquid fuel is suppose to be flowing through this. After 2 weeks, I would say that its leaking down in that time. Since it happens after sitting for weeks at a time, I rule out the check valve.