3 speed overdrive Q
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3 speed overdrive Q
I recently aquired an old 3 spped transmission w overdrive, tag says HEK-N, stamp on case says T85N-1A, I would like to put this in my 66 F100, 390. person I got it from said its out of a late 50s ford. does anyone on this site have any info about this, I also posted on transmission site. thanks for any help.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: tujunga, calif
not sure about the code, but if your putting it behind a 390 be easy on it, the ones from the 50's aren't the strongest, your 390 has alot more torque than the trans was designed for, I use one with my 223 six so theres no problem
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Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Connecticut
That tranny came out of a 65 Ford galaxie with a 390 in it. I traced it thru my 65-72 Ford car books. So, it should be ok if you use it being a 390 in a truck. You may have to mess with the drive shaft if you lengths are different.
Barry
Barry
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,613
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From: Coal country
JB: Do a search in this forum, using my name and overdrive. I used to have on in my '66, and wrote quite a bit about it.
The one you have should have a slip yoke in the rear rather than a bolt-on u-joint. If so, then you have the one designed for cars, and was used up to '72. A truck OD will have R-11 casting numbers in the rear OD housing; a car OD will have R-10 or lower numbers.
The OD which would have come in a '65 or later truck would be the T-85N. It is a different transmission and overdrive in that it is bigger, heavier and stronger to handle truck work, but the electrics and the concepts are identical (unless they are 6V instead of 12V).
Good luck.
The one you have should have a slip yoke in the rear rather than a bolt-on u-joint. If so, then you have the one designed for cars, and was used up to '72. A truck OD will have R-11 casting numbers in the rear OD housing; a car OD will have R-10 or lower numbers.
The OD which would have come in a '65 or later truck would be the T-85N. It is a different transmission and overdrive in that it is bigger, heavier and stronger to handle truck work, but the electrics and the concepts are identical (unless they are 6V instead of 12V).
Good luck.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 556
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From: Ridgeway, Virginia
Here's some info I saved when I was getting to know my 65 overdrive. I'm not sure who wrote it but its a good read. I can probably answer some of your questions and I have a wireing diagram for the governor, solenoid, kickdown switch, and relay that I can send you. Anyway check this out....
These overdrive trannies are great,I've had one for over 20 years. BUT FIRST SEE MY DANGER WARNING FURHER DOWN!
To answer your question, if the overdrive (OD) tail housing has R-11 cast into it, it will hold up quite well. What it WON'T tolerate well, though, is goofing off, popping the clutch, etc. Originally, it came with a 2V carb, so I mention this reference the 4V. It is designed as a working man's way to save on gas, yet get decent performance. I have one in my '66, and I really like it.
You have two electrical items on your trans: The upper one, on the passenger side, is the governor, and the lower one, on the driver's side is the actuation solenoid. You have a number of other items, so I'll describe them as well. This is, of course, a factory intallation I am describing. If yours was transplanted, it may not be all there.
This is a Warner T-89N transmission. It is essentially a T-89 3 speed with an OD attached. It differs from the T-89 in that the T-89N has a few modifications for the OD extension to work.
1. Your governor closes the main circuit when your speed gets high enough, usually about 27 mph.
2. This activates a internally fused relay, which is on your firewall in the engine compartment above the main wiring harness port. The relay
energizes the primary circuit in the solenoid.
3. When pressure is removed from the drivetrain by taking your foot off
the gas momentarily, the solenoid drives home a pawl to lock in the OD sun and planetary gears. Once the pawl is in, an internal switch in the
solenoid turns off the main circuit, and uses a less powerful circuit to hold the solenoid in. Thus the need for 2 wires. In other words, the way it works is this: Get up to about 30 mph, take your foot off the gas, listen/feel for the "clunk", and drive on at a lower rpm!
4. When the engine starts to bog down (because in high gear, a heavy load going uphill for example), your increasing pressure on the acclerator will activate a kickdown switch under it. This switch momentarily does 2 things: It kills the engine by grounding out the coil, and kills power to the solenoid. This allows the solenoid to drop out, effectively lowering the gears ratio, and giving you more power.
5. Occasionally, you will not want the OD to activate. While stopped, pull the handle under the dash marked "Overdrive". this engages a mechanical lever which internally locks out the OD, and keeps it in gear.
WARNING! WARNING!
THIS OD TRANSMISSION WILL NOT HOLD UNLESS IT IS IN REVERSE GEAR!
The OD unit has what is known as a overrunning clutch in it. That is, if the wheels are turning faster than the gears in the transmission, the wheels are allowed to FREEWHEEL. This is dangerous because if the truck is in any gear but reverse, it WILL ROLL, even if it is in gear! ALWAYS, ALWAYS, get in the habit of putting it in reverse before you touch the keys.
I loaned my truck to my dad, and it rolled backwards, in first gear, with the door wide open. The door caught a tree, and bent the door pillar so far back the windshield leaks, and it isn't fixable.Also, if you carry a heavy load, MAKE SURE your OD system is working. If not, pull the handle out, and live with the poor gas mileage. I had my solenoid die going downhill a number of years ago with 3000 lbs of stuff, which meant I had only my drum brakes to slow the truck down. I sure wish I had had disc brakes then for sure for sure!!! I burned up a set of brand new drum brakes that way, trying to stop, which I nearly didn't. When I say "live" with the poor gas mileage, I mean it. You may not otherwise!
Some other cautions: They have a tendency to leak, because the solenoid seal isn't good. Be sure to keep the transmission full. When you change the fluid, let it drain for a while, and then when you fill it, let it sit for a while between checkings. The openings between the main gearbox and the OD unit are sometimes small, and the 90W gear oil may take awhile to seep into the OD part of the unit. Also check the OD unit for any extra fill or drain plugs and be sure to use them if they are there. Enjoy! I get about 18 MPG at 75 MPH with my 352 2V V-8 and OD transmission, so it is WORTH the extra hassles!
Can the overdrive solinoid be removed without pulling the whole unit ?
YES Remove the two bolts, rotate the solenoid 90 degrees to disengage the plunger from the pawl, solenoid lifts out then. Clean everything under the tin cover. Take a length of welding rod and make a small loop that will engage the pawl, you should be able to move it in and out about 3/4".
The Overdrive Kickdown switches are available at
C & G EARLY Ford partS: 1932 - 1956 FORD PARTS
FORD All 1949-1959 Overdrive Kick Down Switch
8A-6918-B 18.00 Each
These overdrive trannies are great,I've had one for over 20 years. BUT FIRST SEE MY DANGER WARNING FURHER DOWN!
To answer your question, if the overdrive (OD) tail housing has R-11 cast into it, it will hold up quite well. What it WON'T tolerate well, though, is goofing off, popping the clutch, etc. Originally, it came with a 2V carb, so I mention this reference the 4V. It is designed as a working man's way to save on gas, yet get decent performance. I have one in my '66, and I really like it.
You have two electrical items on your trans: The upper one, on the passenger side, is the governor, and the lower one, on the driver's side is the actuation solenoid. You have a number of other items, so I'll describe them as well. This is, of course, a factory intallation I am describing. If yours was transplanted, it may not be all there.
This is a Warner T-89N transmission. It is essentially a T-89 3 speed with an OD attached. It differs from the T-89 in that the T-89N has a few modifications for the OD extension to work.
1. Your governor closes the main circuit when your speed gets high enough, usually about 27 mph.
2. This activates a internally fused relay, which is on your firewall in the engine compartment above the main wiring harness port. The relay
energizes the primary circuit in the solenoid.
3. When pressure is removed from the drivetrain by taking your foot off
the gas momentarily, the solenoid drives home a pawl to lock in the OD sun and planetary gears. Once the pawl is in, an internal switch in the
solenoid turns off the main circuit, and uses a less powerful circuit to hold the solenoid in. Thus the need for 2 wires. In other words, the way it works is this: Get up to about 30 mph, take your foot off the gas, listen/feel for the "clunk", and drive on at a lower rpm!
4. When the engine starts to bog down (because in high gear, a heavy load going uphill for example), your increasing pressure on the acclerator will activate a kickdown switch under it. This switch momentarily does 2 things: It kills the engine by grounding out the coil, and kills power to the solenoid. This allows the solenoid to drop out, effectively lowering the gears ratio, and giving you more power.
5. Occasionally, you will not want the OD to activate. While stopped, pull the handle under the dash marked "Overdrive". this engages a mechanical lever which internally locks out the OD, and keeps it in gear.
WARNING! WARNING!
THIS OD TRANSMISSION WILL NOT HOLD UNLESS IT IS IN REVERSE GEAR!
The OD unit has what is known as a overrunning clutch in it. That is, if the wheels are turning faster than the gears in the transmission, the wheels are allowed to FREEWHEEL. This is dangerous because if the truck is in any gear but reverse, it WILL ROLL, even if it is in gear! ALWAYS, ALWAYS, get in the habit of putting it in reverse before you touch the keys.
I loaned my truck to my dad, and it rolled backwards, in first gear, with the door wide open. The door caught a tree, and bent the door pillar so far back the windshield leaks, and it isn't fixable.Also, if you carry a heavy load, MAKE SURE your OD system is working. If not, pull the handle out, and live with the poor gas mileage. I had my solenoid die going downhill a number of years ago with 3000 lbs of stuff, which meant I had only my drum brakes to slow the truck down. I sure wish I had had disc brakes then for sure for sure!!! I burned up a set of brand new drum brakes that way, trying to stop, which I nearly didn't. When I say "live" with the poor gas mileage, I mean it. You may not otherwise!
Some other cautions: They have a tendency to leak, because the solenoid seal isn't good. Be sure to keep the transmission full. When you change the fluid, let it drain for a while, and then when you fill it, let it sit for a while between checkings. The openings between the main gearbox and the OD unit are sometimes small, and the 90W gear oil may take awhile to seep into the OD part of the unit. Also check the OD unit for any extra fill or drain plugs and be sure to use them if they are there. Enjoy! I get about 18 MPG at 75 MPH with my 352 2V V-8 and OD transmission, so it is WORTH the extra hassles!
Can the overdrive solinoid be removed without pulling the whole unit ?
YES Remove the two bolts, rotate the solenoid 90 degrees to disengage the plunger from the pawl, solenoid lifts out then. Clean everything under the tin cover. Take a length of welding rod and make a small loop that will engage the pawl, you should be able to move it in and out about 3/4".
The Overdrive Kickdown switches are available at
C & G EARLY Ford partS: 1932 - 1956 FORD PARTS
FORD All 1949-1959 Overdrive Kick Down Switch
8A-6918-B 18.00 Each
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northey
1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
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