I think the best solution would be to limit them to stock production blocks, rods, crank, block, and heads. Made in quantities greater than 10,000 to prevent specialty factory stuff. That'd slow 'em down.

 

From what I've seen the cautions are so long because they clean the whole track under every yellow flag. This makes good sense to me. If they just cleaned up the part where the wreck was there is a good chance that the caution would fly again in a few laps for debris. It also takes a long time to clean up fluids if any are spilled. I do think the cautions are too long, but not drastically. I think NASCAR goes into every race thinking about how many caution laps they should run on that day and then running that number of caution laps. Late in the race I think driver fatigue has a lot to do with it. If you've never run a car around a racetrack you have no idea how tiring it is both mentally and physically. A 10-15 minute break toward the end of the race is probably a good way to prevent allow the drivers to relax and get their head screwed back on straight and prevent another caution in a few laps.

There used to be white lines across the tracks at the restart line. The problem is that paint is very slippery stuff compared to pavement. The line is usually at the entrance to the tri-oval where the cars are WOT on every lap. That can be a real hazard because both front tires go over the line at the same time and possibly tighten the car up briefly. The driver corrects for the understeer just as the rear tires hit the line and the car gets loose and spins. There used to be a lot of accidents occur this way. If you watch some of the old races on ESPN Classic you'll see what I mean. The flour would be OK except that it would be very slippery for a few laps, then would be gone. You would think with modern technology they could come up with something that would project a line across the track at the restart point. Or maybe they could go back to real racing and let them go as soon as the green waves.

 

Two comments: Dale DID get penalized! As soon as he crashed I mumbled; "Live by the sword, die ......" My criticism of NASCAR is the fact the S stands for nothing anymore. I really believe in "Run wutcha brung!" If the Chevies or Fords are faster from the factory, so be it. They will win every race until the other guys realize they should make a change. That worked VERY well in the early '60's and caused the auto companies to push some excellent car programs. The 409s and 421's were winning then the hemis won everything then Ford did the Talladega body and the 429 hemi engine and Charger did the flush rear windows and the Daytona with wing followed by the Superbird. That stuff happened because of "Run wutcha brung.".

 

When I am at the races I enjoy the cautions. It gives you a chance to look around, go to the bathroom, and get something to eat. Plus it bunches the cars up so you can see some racing. If the race ran caution free it would be the most boring thing ever to go and watch. The atmosphere at a race is like a big party and that is what people do during the cautions. It is all part of the sport.

 

Wow.... there is no limit to the BS in this thread....

Ford guys use a 351W, Chevy uses a 350, and the Dodge guys use a 360. They are limited to 358 Cubic Inches. They do use use a stock production body, and must fit more than 30 templates imposed by NASCAR...

I'm a fan, I watch whenever I can, and I will always be a fan...

 

What BS? Are those engines stock and avilable to the public from the factory? Ever seen a rear-wheel drive V-8 Taurus or Monte Carlo or Intrepid? Yeah, I know, Chevy has a V-8 Monte coming and the Germans are putting Mexican engines into their Canadian cars but those are not the engines being used at NASCAR. I am old enough to remember when S stood for stock and stock was a good thing and available to all of us. The vehicles are too similar and it detracts from this "sport."

 

First of all, rubbin' is racing'. Second, if you can catch somebody you are faster than they are anyway. It also helped that Dale wasn't a whining cry baby when he got back what he gave out. You rarely heard him say anything in response to something that happened on the track other than "That's racin'". You always knew he thought that he was wrecked as opposed to moved over when he had something else to say about what happened. All these open wheel drivers that have moved to NASCAR (a sport many of them don't care about at all, but that's where the money is) can't handle two cars touching. Many modern drivers are also very careless on the track and do things that are beyond their abilities or are beyond the ability of other drivers to react to.

 

And your post is the largest of the steaming piles.

Last I checked the 351W had inline valve heads. The NASCAR Fords are running what is basically a Cleveland head cast in aluminum. The Cleveland has been out of production since 73, although the heads were used on the 351M and 400 for a few years after that in 2 barrel form.

Could you please show me where GM EVER installed a symmetrical port aluminum head on any production 350. They didn't.

At least you got part of it right. One thing that applies to all of the brands is that they use bore and stroke combinations that the factory never even though of. When did Chevy ever build an engine that was 4.155x3.3?

You mean the manufacturers take the time to hand form every body panel out of steel sheet so thin that it bends if you look at it wrong. Puhlease! Very few modern cars even use steel in the body panels anymore; most are plastic. If you took the templates to a dealership and held them up to a production body they would probably touch in one or two places and have huge gaps everywhere else. A production body couldn't get through tech! Do you know what the RT stands for in Intrepid RT? How about Really a Taurus. The two cars use the same templates even though the bodies of the production cars aren't even close. The Charger probably shares templates with the other bodies as well.

 

Take a look again my BS friend. The cars use the universal templates starting this year. As I said before the cars are identical except for the shapes of the grill and window openings. It used to be the way you said but is no more. I am a die hard NASCAR fan and go to every race I can and watch every one I can't on TV. I may be growing disgusted with NASCAR but that doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about and have first hand experience with.

 

Have you ever noticed that NONE of the small name/finance teams ever start the race? Once in a while when they get a break maybe, but that's it. The big name teams are the only ones people seem to care about. Why? I'm pretty much a DJ (88) fan, but am happy when someone other than Gordon or JR. wins it. If it's some smaller team that wins I am usually really happy.

 

Well, I think you've helped me overcome my impending aversion to watching NASCAR on the weekends, Silver Streak! What you related has been going on in NASCAR before I was even born! I only know about some of it, from reading about it in magazines, and seeing various historical bits on TV.

I forget how long ago it was, but Stock Car Racing magazine had done a feature interview with legendary racer/builder/owner Smokey Yunick, in which the template issue came up. Seems that one of Smokey's drivers had rolled one of their Chevelles, during a practice session, and although the team fixed what mechanicals that needed to be fixed, in order to run, the rollover had laid back the A-posts in such a way that the Chevelle no longer conformed to NASCAR's templates. In trying to argue that they should be allowed to run the Chevelle as is, the team went to the local Hertz, rented a Chevelle, brought it to the track, and it too was "off by a mile," according to the templates.

As for someone having mentioned "how boring it would be, if a race ran caution free, or nearly caution free," actually it wouldn't be all that boring. I've seen some races with very few cautions, and it seemed like the race was over as soon as it started. I've never been to a NASCAR race, so it seems to me that if a race goes with very few cautions, if one thought they was going to have a 4-5 hour party during the race, they'd be a bit disappointed, but that's my uneducated guess, there.

One thing I do like about the Craftsman Truck series is, it seems the truck drivers are better able to make it from the start to the 1/2-way caution, then from the 1/2-way caution to the finish without too many "demolition derbies," if any. How's come they can't do that, at the Busch series and Nextel Cup levels?

Matt

 

I miss "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday." We used to be able to go get a 429 Talledaga or hemi Daytona, etc. With GM moving back to V-8's and some rear-drive, maybe they could compete with the Germans and their Mexican engined Canadian cars. I see nothing from Ford, though......... I know I am old and this will never happen, but I miss true stock cars...........

 

the biggest problem is NASCAR has sold out. i feel that they have reached their peak and you will eventually see a decline in the fans intrest. also another problem is that the Fance family owns 5 GM dealerships, seems like a conflict of intrest to me. no wonder that GM has won more nascar races than any other make. its just starting to look like WWE wrestling to me. its turning into a man's soap opra.

 

We just got back from our trip to Darlington Race, we really missed see'n the Craftman trucks this time. Last nov. and the other times we had the big package deal.
By being there the races don't last long enough and it is so different then watch'n on TV, or in the grandstands. We camp in the infield and there is so much going on, cautions are no problem. gives ya more time to go inide the camper for a beer or start the grill etc.
The trucks have a better chance to be more even because of the lower horsepower and I think they are more like the street trucks and the drivers know they can spinout fast on the restart. So maybe lesser Horsepower in all the classes will help control the hi speed excitement.
It is fun to see big horsepower and hi speed action and it fun to see the things the way they are except the restrictor race.

 

You're exactly right. There is no reward for being innovative, creative or original because that would create an unfair advantage. NASCAR has created it's own monster. They are now completely dependent on the automakers and advertisers to participate or the entire house of cards will come crashing down. Thus, the racers, engine builders, and teams are no longer there to win but to maintain the economics of the race.

There used to be a certain pride or glory in bending the rules to gain an edge but now there's so much money at stake, such creativity will be penalized immediately.