If any of you have been reading my other post at https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=351191 you'll know what is going on here. In a nutshell, truck has been in the shop 3 times now for the engine knock at idle. First time they replaced the cam chain tensioners, cam chain and spockets. Last time they replaced all of the above, plus the cam phasers. Zero success on any of these attemps. They said more than likely Ford would send them a new engine to swap out. However now they have backtracked and are waiting on a Ford engineer to come investigate my truck and tell them what to do. This could range from running more tests, replacing more parts, putting a new engine in the truck, or in an extreme case, buying it back. I'm told the engine would be new, not rebuilt, but would only be warrantied according to the miles on my truck. Dealer is doing all they can, but I'm fed up with not having my truck. Anyone else have experience with having a 2004 5.4 replaced already? I had a tranny replaced on another vehicle and all it did was cause problems from things not being connected and re-adjusted right on the install. Just hoping this doesn't end up the same way, considering I only have 8500 miles on my truck and have only had it 5 months. Any help/comments would be appreciated.

 

With 8500 miles on the truck and that many times in the shop for the same problem I wouldn't even listen to them when they say they want to replace the engine. That is unacceptable.

Tell them you want what you paid for - a new truck.

You already have 3 repair attempts that have failed. You need to take the next step and send a certified letter to Ford corporate and give them 1 final repair attempt that must be completed within 15 days. It is time to light a fire under their backsides and get someones undivided attention on your situation. If that doesn't work it is time to think about DSB or Lemon Laws.

Dealers and FSEs will tell you anything you want to hear and then just keep you waiting and waiting . That is why there is a process to follow when situations like yours arise. It is not a personal attack against your dealer or Ford, it is just buisness.

Say you were to buy a TV that cost $500.00, got it home and plugged it in, and found out it didn't work right. The TV store would give you 100% of your money back or would replace the TV on the spot. They may even upgrade it for the hassle(at least in a perfect world ). Why would someone expect anything less when the pay 30-40K for a vehicle. It still amazes me that a manufacturer will sell you a defective vehicle and then make it your problem that it doesn't work the way it should. This applies to ALL manufacturers not just Ford.

Learn your rights and don't settle for anything less than what you expected to get in the first place.

Good Luck

Toypuller-been there, done that and brought home the Tee shirt.

 

Since the dealer I took it to the first go round claimed they didn't even hear the problem I described, its technically only been worked on twice by this dealer. From what I hear regarding the DSB process and/or Lemon Laws, you have to give the dealer 4 chances to fix the problem, then you have to give Ford Corporate one chance to fix. If the problem is not resolved then, that's when you have a chance at a buyback. I'm doing my best to stay calm and see if they are actually trying to fix things here, so I'll save my furor for the day it comes back with a new engine and still knocks. Then I'll light a fire under their ***. We ran into this problem years ago and started yelling and screaming too soon. Finally the dealer said they refused to service our vehicle anymore, and Chevrolet's corporate office said the same thing. Needless to say we traded that Suburban in the next day. If anyone has had experience with the DSB process, let me know why you started it, how you got there, and how it went. Thanks.

 

I've done and won the DSB process on my 04 FX4. I started it because I had problems that the dealer was unable to fix and that the FSE claimed did not exist.

The # of repair attempts is specific to your state, however the vast majority say it is 3 unsuccessful attempts followed by a final repair attempt. The final repair attempt must be scheduled after the manufacturer has been notified via certified letter. In some state that # is 2 prior to final attempt.

If you brought the truck to the dealer for the problem and he said he could not hear it, it would still count as a repair attempt. A repair attempt will count even if the problem wasn't diagnosed. You need to have generated a service visit in the computer system. You either have to have a service ticket or get a copy of your vehicle history from the dealer. If no visit was recorded then you will still need one more-sorry.

Why I started the DSB: I had multiple problems that the dealer could not fix. Vibration being the primary one.

How I got there: By learning everything I could about my rights concerning a defective vehicle. I spoke to lawyers, dealers, and the Attorney General's office in my state. I scoured the internet and several legal statutes for relevant information. I read my owners manual. I contacted the DSB and Ford Motor Company. I found this site.

How it went: Great for me. I now have a 2005 F-250 XLT that I chose from the MSRP to MSRP replacement. No milage/usage charges and the price differance from the 2004 FX4 was a little over $400.00 in my favor. Others on this site have had various degrees of success, some have won, some have lost.

Feel free to do a search on "DSB" or "Lemon Law" and read the details.

 

FSE came to look at the truck today. Dealer calls and tells me they hooked it up and found the oil pressure at cold idle and at 2000 RPM to rapidly fluctuate between 60 to 80 psi. The disturbing news is after it warmed up, at idle, the oil pressure rapidly fluctuated between 15 to 40 psi. I've worked on a few engines in my past and none of them ever ran that low even when warm. If anyone knows what the true oil pressure specs are for this engine, please let me know. My concern now is that with my primarily stop and go driving for 8500 miles, that the 15 psi oil pressure has caused unecessary wear and tear on the internals of the motor. They claim they are going to put an oil pump on it and see what happens. They said that with the oil pressure fluctuating, the relief valve on the front of the motor is rattling, and the cam chain tensioners aren't getting the oil pressure they need, thus making the chains rattle. I told them I was concerned about wear on the valves, crank bearings etc. and that I wanted some reassurance that no damage was done, and they said "We'll see what we can do." I also called a friend of ours who is a service manager about 400 miles away. He said the engine is designed to shut off if the pressure gets too low, but that damage could still have been done. He said to hope that the oil pump doesnt fix the problem and then most likely, Ford would put a new engine in. He said if it did fix the problem, to order them to give me a $50 deductible 6 year 60,000 mile extended warranty. Even that still makes me nervous. What happens after the 60k? He told me that since the FSE has been called in, that everything has been turned over to Ford, and the dealer is at Ford's mercy. Any further decisions regarding this issue have to be run through the FSE. I think this is all a crock and I'm ready for a truck with a new engine that doesnt have any problems. If this doesn't fix it, or they end up putting a new engine in and it has the same problems, it's time to jump down someones throat and make them buy this damn thing back with no mileage adjustment. They better pay me for my Ford steps, dealer installed spray liner, and the dealer installed window tint too. I'm married to an attorney and we're not afraid to take this damn thing to court.

 

I wonder if these trucks have rev limiters? One solution would to start it up, leave it in park and hold the gas pedal to floor till she puts the rods through the pan..

 

That might have worked in the old days but I'll bet the computer would catch and record this trick and the owner would have the honor of buying the new engine.

 

The PCM memory and the 'black box' would all fink on you.

On major engine surgery, while none of us want anybody messing around inside the covers, if the repair work holds for a year, it will probably hold for ten years.

Assuming they make a mistake inside, you are gonna know about it in a few miles.
Heavy line guys are the ones with the actual skills in most shops.

Where I would worry would be in other things like wiring, valve/cam cover gasket leaks, hoses, lines, wires routed wrong, tension on fittings, broken clips, etc. etc.

These things are done by the 'helper'. The inside the covers work is done by the real mechanics.

So you look the job over before they touch it, maybe take a few digital pics, and then look it over later, watching for loose stuff, things looking canted, etc, then test all functions, park where you can be sure there are no leaks, etc. and you can feel OK about the work.

Oddly, if they swapped a complete engine in they would be even more likely to mess up the small stuff than tearing down this engine.

Lower skill requirment to swap engine, thus mostly done by helpers and twice as many small things to screw up.

Chris

 

my question would be if they do put in a new engine why would it be limited to the remaining warranty on your truck???? It's a new engine and in the modern age of computers they should be able to note the extension of the warranty on your engine in fact I think I would demand it. Plus i agree with your friend that they should throw in the extended warranty the best one they have. my wife got the 100k warranty on her expy. stand firm because Ford doesn't want unsastifed customers but don't threaten unless you are ready to fight

 

From the shop manual.......
Oil pressure minimum at 2,000 rpm (engine at normal operating temperature) 275.8-413.7 kPa (40-60 psi).

A general rule of thumb is that 10 psi oil pressure for every 1000 rpm is acceptable.

 

Going on 12 days in the shop now and Ford still cant tell the dealer anything about whether they have the oil pump in stock, if they've sent the part, and if so, how long it will take to get here. Has anyone had problems with this before? Apparently the engines are manufactured at one plant and all the oil pumps are allocated to that location for the time being. Someone physically has to pull one out of the line and forward it to my dealer in Texas. Tomorrow, my wife and I are going to make a trip to our dealer and tell them we want to leave with the keys to something new. They've already offered us a 2005 Eddie Bauer Explorer demo with 7000 miles but wont give us a trade value for the F150 until they can get a timeframe for when they could actually get it into their inventory. Since Ford cant tell them when the part will be here, theyre telling us we cant even trade it or get it appraised yet. Despite that were going to talk to the sales manager or the owner and see what happens. Thanks for all the info guys.

 

Apparently now, the oil pump for 2004-2005 F150 5.4 motors is on National backorder from the manufacturer of the pump. Truck is on day 12 in the shop and I was just told to prepare for another week or two. They have had me driving a loaner Ranger, but I'm going by today and demanding a new set of keys or a full size loaner vehicle. The dealer in West Texas where I bought the truck is trying to work with Ford to either Lemon this truck or buy it back and do a MSRP swap with me because they feel that this is wrong. At least my dealer here and the dealer I bought it from are all on my side and not necessarily Ford's. How can such an essential part be on National backorder as these trucks are flowing out of assembly plants and onto dealer lots like ants? Wish I knew who made the damn oil pump. I would go drive my loaner ranger right through their front door. I never dreamed of having this many problems with a truck that is less than 6 months old and only has 8500 miles on it. Hope everyone else is having better luck with their trucks. About all the local dealer can get us into for near the same payments (we got a really good deal on the F150) is an Explorer. We really dont want one of those because the 06 models will be out in a few months. Not sure we want another F150 5.4 with all the problems we had with this one. Considering a gas motor F250 Super Duty, but the incentives aren't there either. We're at our wits end here.

 

Keep at them, the big corps like to wear people down. Maybe print out the posts in the forum and fax to ford showing the bad press. Even the faithful can be disheartened by a story like yours. good luck man. keep up the fight.

t

 

Yall wont believe this. My truck that we've had all the above problems with, is as follows: 2004 F150 Extended Cab, 5.4, Auto, XLT, White exterior with tan pinstripe, Tan Interior, Split front bench, Single Disc CD, Keyless entry, Keypad on Door, Foglights, Chrome Ford Wheels with Michelins, Dealer installed Rhino Liner, Factory Ford Chrome Steps, Tinted Windows all the way around, Tow Package, Limited Slip 3.55 Rear. GET this...the dealer that has the truck said they would take it as is for $17,000.00 or $18,500.00 if it was fixed and running. I cant possibly believe that a truck I bought in October that only has 8500 miles on it has already lost at least 40% of it's initial value (stickered at 30 even). For comparison I traded a 2002 new body style Dodge Ram 1500 with the 4.7 motor and got $13,500 back in October. What has happened to Ford's resale values. Guess rebates, low interest rates, and the price of gas have destroyed resale. If you're going to get one of these you better keep it. I only owe 12k but I still cant get anywhere near what we're paying now. Let me know if any of you have traded similar trucks. With another week or two to go at least for an oil pump, we just want to trade and be done with it. Thanks guys.

 

I would tell them to go to hell, I would also contact ford and let them know that they have one last chance to fix the situation before you call a lawyer. I am not sure of texas lemon law but I know they have contract law and that is what this is. If you trade it for that much the dealer is going to add 10k and then turn around and sell it to another person who will have the same issues. Another solution is to call the local news outlets, (tv, papers etc.) and tell them your story. Better Business Bur. and possible the state attorney general. Give them hell. You spent the cash for the truck and deserve what you paid for. I love Fords but man this kind of story makes me wonder. Good luck.