used the wrong oil?
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
used the wrong oil?
i changed my oil in the 390 but i guess i didn't look at the bottles they said sm rated i used havoline 5w30 will this be a problem i know the sm oils are not good for flat tappet cam engines but what kind of damage could it do.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
Eww. I'd change it. SM oils dont have nearly the ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) additive necessary to protect flat tappet cams as the older oils. You run the risk of wiping a lobe or lobes. Not good.
I use 10w30 diesel rated, with the CH-4 / CI-4 ratings, along with the SL. The diesel oils have more ZDDP than non-diesel rated oils, and work great to protect your cam.
I use 10w30 diesel rated, with the CH-4 / CI-4 ratings, along with the SL. The diesel oils have more ZDDP than non-diesel rated oils, and work great to protect your cam.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
This is all very interesting...
SM rated oils do not have Zinc?
In all the years I ran my FE, I never concerned myself with that, just used Castrol GTX 20W50 or 10W40...
Now, since the Castrol stuff is "SM" rated, it doesn't contain zinc anymore? Beyond that, I read somewhere Castrol didn't have zinc in it to begin with, then found another site where it says Castrol GTX is .12% zinc.... no dates on anything and a search on Castrol's web site for ZDDP or ZINC returns nothing.
I wonder, how my V10 stacks up against SM rated oils? Something to ask in that forum at another time, I think
SM rated oils do not have Zinc?
In all the years I ran my FE, I never concerned myself with that, just used Castrol GTX 20W50 or 10W40...
Now, since the Castrol stuff is "SM" rated, it doesn't contain zinc anymore? Beyond that, I read somewhere Castrol didn't have zinc in it to begin with, then found another site where it says Castrol GTX is .12% zinc.... no dates on anything and a search on Castrol's web site for ZDDP or ZINC returns nothing.
I wonder, how my V10 stacks up against SM rated oils? Something to ask in that forum at another time, I think
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Well it still has it, just not enough. The cut the amount about in half. It was determined that ZDDP plugs up catylitic converters. So to allow manufacturers to warranty emissions longer, the amount of ZDDP had to be reduced. Since new engines have roller cams, this hasn't been a problem for them. For our old FE's, it has the potential to be a big problem. (except Greg of course, with his roller cam and roller rockers 
)
You probably found some old info. Last I saw on the oil and lube forum, the new SM's are around 500ppm, where the oil I recommended is around 1300ppm. SL energy conserving was around 800ppm I think, and was marginal IMO.
So either a diesel oil like I recommended, or a high mileage non energy conserving, non-SM oil. I'd pick the diesel rated, in either 10w30 or 15w40.
)You probably found some old info. Last I saw on the oil and lube forum, the new SM's are around 500ppm, where the oil I recommended is around 1300ppm. SL energy conserving was around 800ppm I think, and was marginal IMO.
So either a diesel oil like I recommended, or a high mileage non energy conserving, non-SM oil. I'd pick the diesel rated, in either 10w30 or 15w40.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
wow, you learn something every day. I run Castrol GTX 20w50 in just about every thing that has an oil fill opening at my house. I buy it by the cases...since the project takes like 11 quarts and I pull the motor about every 3 months (not by choice) :-)
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
Greg, I really advise against 20w50 in a new motor like yours. 20w50 is for old beaters that burn oil and make noise. All you're doing in a new motor with 20w50 is making more heat, losing mileage, losing power, and making life harder for your oil pump drive shaft and distributor gear. I really recommend you run 10w30 or at the very most 15w40, and only then if you're going to be doing towing.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
well here are the numbers on the oil i used it was havoline 5w30 sm
found it in the oil and lube forum posted by flash.
5w-30
Moly 360 ain't no joke folks
Boron-54
Calcium- 1556
Magn- 36
Phos-609
Zinc- 749
found it in the oil and lube forum posted by flash.
5w-30
Moly 360 ain't no joke folks
Boron-54
Calcium- 1556
Magn- 36
Phos-609
Zinc- 749
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 24,552
Likes: 74
From: Creedmoor, North Carolina
Looks like it has minerals to keep it healthy. Like Wonder bread, builds strong bodies 12 ways.
I really am amazed at times to see the length or depth that some of you guys will go to split an already fine hair one more time.
Some guy writes a good article on oil filters and most of us that had hundreds of thousands of miles using Fram filters now have switched to Motorcraft. The Fram display is still full at the parts house, and no class action law suit yet because of mass failure.
What's a body to do?
John
I really am amazed at times to see the length or depth that some of you guys will go to split an already fine hair one more time.
Some guy writes a good article on oil filters and most of us that had hundreds of thousands of miles using Fram filters now have switched to Motorcraft. The Fram display is still full at the parts house, and no class action law suit yet because of mass failure.
What's a body to do?
John
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FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
I run Valvoline VR1 in the Built Motors..... .15% zinc.......and Valvoline 10-30 in the rest of the Junk around here....I have used Valvoline for 30 years without any Oil related failure's.....
And the Only time I would use a heavy weight Oil is in a worn out motor....Or if I were pulling something for a good distance...then I might step up a little weight to help with break down...
Russ.........JMHO............
And the Only time I would use a heavy weight Oil is in a worn out motor....Or if I were pulling something for a good distance...then I might step up a little weight to help with break down...
Russ.........JMHO............
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Jackassville
Well, I am lucky I guess. I ran Valvoine SM oil in my FE for first start up. I am now running Mystik 10-30, but no wiped cam lobes or isssues. You have to understand where I live, you use what you got, and valvoine is what I had. Hopefully no issues I think I would have detected a bad lobe by now but last time I pulled the valve cover and rotated the engine, all valves opened and closed all the way.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,844
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From: Albuquerque
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Eww. I'd change it. SM oils dont have nearly the ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) additive necessary to protect flat tappet cams as the older oils. You run the risk of wiping a lobe or lobes. Not good.
I use 10w30 diesel rated, with the CH-4 / CI-4 ratings, along with the SL. The diesel oils have more ZDDP than non-diesel rated oils, and work great to protect your cam.
I use 10w30 diesel rated, with the CH-4 / CI-4 ratings, along with the SL. The diesel oils have more ZDDP than non-diesel rated oils, and work great to protect your cam.
biz
Thread Starter
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
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From: Brentwood,CA
ok i did the swap but i have a new problem i can't get the oil pump mounted back up i removed the pan and oil pump while the engine is still in the truck but i can't hold the pump in place to start the bolts because i can't fit my hand inbetween the pan and the pump so is there a trick i really do not want to pull the engine