Alternate intake ideas
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
From: Nelson, BC, Canada
Alternate intake ideas
Hi all,
Was just curious if anyone has built a custom intake while routing the charge from the compressor to the intercooler and back to the intake? The reason I ask is this, you all know that the compressed air from the TC is hot, hence the intercooler to drop the charge temp. Fair enough. Why then is the "cooled down" charge routed back to the intake fitting which is shared by the hot charge going to the intercooler? So on one side of the intake piece we are pumping hot air through and then on the other side routing the cooled air through this hot fitting? I don't get it.
I have done a few custom turbo installs the past years and NEVER considered this type of set up as an option. I understand it's cheaper for Ford to do it this way (cast one piece instead of 2 or so), but surely there are some people out there who have made thier own intake system for the PSD, no?
I'd love to hear more.
Cheers!
:-)
Was just curious if anyone has built a custom intake while routing the charge from the compressor to the intercooler and back to the intake? The reason I ask is this, you all know that the compressed air from the TC is hot, hence the intercooler to drop the charge temp. Fair enough. Why then is the "cooled down" charge routed back to the intake fitting which is shared by the hot charge going to the intercooler? So on one side of the intake piece we are pumping hot air through and then on the other side routing the cooled air through this hot fitting? I don't get it.
I have done a few custom turbo installs the past years and NEVER considered this type of set up as an option. I understand it's cheaper for Ford to do it this way (cast one piece instead of 2 or so), but surely there are some people out there who have made thier own intake system for the PSD, no?
I'd love to hear more.
Cheers!
:-)
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 3
From: River Valley AR
I'm no expert by any means (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a few years back) but I think it would be an even trade off. I agree that the turbo heats the air, lets say by 30 degrees for sake of discussion. If the intercooler drops the temperature by 30 degrees also then you would break even.
The factory method reduces the charge temperature before the turbo, which could put cooler air in the turbo.
The method you propose would put ambient air through the turbo and I'm guessing the turbo would be a little warmer that way. Not that it would be harmful because the OBS trucks don't have an intercooler and they get ambient air. Another thing that comes to mind is that the intercooler and plumbing would be under positive pressure now, instead of negative pressure as the factory setup. Also the warmer intercooler in front of the radiator would create warmer airflow across the radiator and A/C condenser.
I see the difference that you're pointing out, but IMO it will all cancel out anyway, but it does make you think.....
The factory method reduces the charge temperature before the turbo, which could put cooler air in the turbo.
The method you propose would put ambient air through the turbo and I'm guessing the turbo would be a little warmer that way. Not that it would be harmful because the OBS trucks don't have an intercooler and they get ambient air. Another thing that comes to mind is that the intercooler and plumbing would be under positive pressure now, instead of negative pressure as the factory setup. Also the warmer intercooler in front of the radiator would create warmer airflow across the radiator and A/C condenser.
I see the difference that you're pointing out, but IMO it will all cancel out anyway, but it does make you think.....
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
You could separate the Y-pipe by removing it from the vehicle and cutting away the turbo outlet section. Save the turbo flange and use it for a template to adapt a piece of exhaust elbow or some other compatable piece of pipe to lay in the depression that was just cut away. It could be done and I would do it for the OOOO'a and AAAA's but I don't have that sort of facility. Wish I did.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
From: Nelson, BC, Canada
Thanks kwik and bodabdan. Bodabdan, I don't think you quite get what I mean. The charge from the TC would still go through the IC and back to the engine, it just wouldn't go through the shared "Y" pipe which is hot from the TC charge and "cool" from the IC charge. There would be no ambient air entering the engine, still a compressed charge from the TC, just not being routed back through the heated "Y" pipe. I think a split of the Y pipe is definately in order.
I'll keep you all posted.
:-)
I'll keep you all posted.
:-)
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: New Hampshire
man...! great minds think alike...! i looked at that and thought the same thing..! DUMB...! JUST PLAIN DUMB...! to do it that way... i remember looking under the hood of a new 6.0 and i do not remember that ford did it that way on the new motor...
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
From: Nelson, BC, Canada
AHA! Thanks for the input johnny8. You're right, it is a dumb, dumb set up from a performance standpoint, but good from a manufacturers standpoint. I am most defineately going to make the mod.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: New Hampshire
let me know what you do and how it works out...! i wish someone made a kit so you could bolt on a couple of replacement peices and take that one cast peice and throw it in the trash...!
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
From: Nelson, BC, Canada
Well, suffice it to say that I know enough people here that I work with whereby the needed pieces can be made up no problem. I'll sort through it, take some pics and work around any pitfalls and see where it takes me. If all is good and it's a nice, clean install, maybe I'll make up some kits for you guys to sink your claws into.
Cheers!
:-)
Cheers!
:-)
Last edited by kalsc; May 1, 2005 at 11:37 AM. Reason: spelling
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
From: Nelson, BC, Canada
Just for reference sake, and of course this depends on the efficiency of the turbocharger, boost level, etc, but the charge temperature can be as hot as 360 degrees F. This is significant!!!!
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by kalsc
Just for reference sake, and of course this depends on the efficiency of the turbocharger, boost level, etc, but the charge temperature can be as hot as 360 degrees F. This is significant!!!!
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: New Hampshire
i realize that you are never gonna get the charge temp back down to ambient... it's just not gonna happen... but... every little thing you can do to lower that intake air temp is gonna help you lower egt's, and even a little drop is good... if this wasn't important, then why bother with an intercooler...?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by johnny8
i realize that you are never gonna get the charge temp back down to ambient... it's just not gonna happen... but... every little thing you can do to lower that intake air temp is gonna help you lower egt's, and even a little drop is good... if this wasn't important, then why bother with an intercooler...?
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: New Hampshire
you are probably right on that kwik... but doesn't cooler air = denser air... and that means more oxygen in the air that gets into the cylinder and that means more effiecient burn and more fuel can be burned to make more power... it's all related... so agian... cooler air = better burn... doesn't a diesel make enough heat when it's workin'..? i need to do a lot more studying on these engines..!
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
I remember reading a short essay a few years ago some research that was being done with what's call adabiatic diesel engines. Long story short=no cooling system, so no heat loss and the resulting extra fuel usage required to maintain operating temperature. They wanted to run the diesel engine nearly red hot to make it more fuel efficient. But they dropped it because some of the parts had to be ceramic to take the heat and the technology simply wasn't in place yet. I don't remember if there was a problem with excessive NOX output or not. Nitrogen doesn't start to burn until about 2500 degrees F. EGR systems are great for keeping the combustion temps down and I am sure they had to use something like that, but it's been too long ago for me to remember it all.
In a nutshell, you don't really need an intercooler for a diesel to work, I think it's there for pollution control, nothing else.
In a nutshell, you don't really need an intercooler for a diesel to work, I think it's there for pollution control, nothing else.