question about changes made to trucks
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Thanks Chris,
Believe me, I dont take much of what CR says seriously in regards to the editorials and such. They seem to drool over little Japanese cars that get 30+ MPG, while trashing American cars, these cars get the job done and are efficient but arent very exciting. They are definitely biased towards the left, and it looks like it keeps getting worse, it seems like if a car doesnt get 25+ MPG (excluding trucks) it doesnt get a high rating, (I'm not accusing them of manipulating their data, but I wouldnt be surprised if they were) They really seem to give cars high ratings based on fuel economy alone.
Ive driven an 05' Tundra several times, it an OK truck, bland and doesnt have the capacity of an F-150, the ride, comfort, or handling, all for a considerable amount more than a comparably equipped F-150. Still, CR gives it its highest rating
Believe me, I dont take much of what CR says seriously in regards to the editorials and such. They seem to drool over little Japanese cars that get 30+ MPG, while trashing American cars, these cars get the job done and are efficient but arent very exciting. They are definitely biased towards the left, and it looks like it keeps getting worse, it seems like if a car doesnt get 25+ MPG (excluding trucks) it doesnt get a high rating, (I'm not accusing them of manipulating their data, but I wouldnt be surprised if they were) They really seem to give cars high ratings based on fuel economy alone.
Ive driven an 05' Tundra several times, it an OK truck, bland and doesnt have the capacity of an F-150, the ride, comfort, or handling, all for a considerable amount more than a comparably equipped F-150. Still, CR gives it its highest rating
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Good point. The strange thing is that they will give different scores to identical vehicles. They hated the Prism, loved the Corolla. Made at the same plant, same components. The Prism had a different seat and headliner. But the lower ratings were on drive train, which was the same in ever component. They didn't care for the Tracker, liked the Sidekick. Complained about the later Tracker, and loved the Vitara. There is not a bolt different. I have owned several of each, no difference at all. They panned the Metro, liked the Swift. Same plant. No parts didn't interchange.
If it's got a non-American brand on it, it must be better...
I know there are others, but I owned each of these. Gas mileage doesn’t explain all their prejudice. The 94 vette 6 speed got 30 on the freeway, and 18-20 around town. They called it a gas hog... but didn't pan the Jag that year, at 10-14. Something about the editors driving them....
I do recommend you check edmunds.com. real reviews by real people. Site is a bit archaic to navigate, but worth it.
There is also a forum for Tundra.
I am not impressed with the prices on Toyota, though. Like Honda, they made some fine cars at good prices in the 80's. Since then, the prices have gone up, the quality has remained constant. The American makers have come up sharply on the quality, and are much more price consious. Also, call the dealership that you would be buying from, pretend you have a (your model here) and ask about various services. Not in one call, take a minute on a couple different days. Imports require a bit more specilized maintance, and prices on import parts are shocking. I prefer to buy American, but have owned a parking lot full of imports too. Service and parts go up faster than gas mileage goes down...
Chris
If it's got a non-American brand on it, it must be better...
I know there are others, but I owned each of these. Gas mileage doesn’t explain all their prejudice. The 94 vette 6 speed got 30 on the freeway, and 18-20 around town. They called it a gas hog... but didn't pan the Jag that year, at 10-14. Something about the editors driving them....
I do recommend you check edmunds.com. real reviews by real people. Site is a bit archaic to navigate, but worth it.
There is also a forum for Tundra.
I am not impressed with the prices on Toyota, though. Like Honda, they made some fine cars at good prices in the 80's. Since then, the prices have gone up, the quality has remained constant. The American makers have come up sharply on the quality, and are much more price consious. Also, call the dealership that you would be buying from, pretend you have a (your model here) and ask about various services. Not in one call, take a minute on a couple different days. Imports require a bit more specilized maintance, and prices on import parts are shocking. I prefer to buy American, but have owned a parking lot full of imports too. Service and parts go up faster than gas mileage goes down...
Chris
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Actually I believe that one explanation for the discrepancies concerning clones between different manufacturers might be the owners perceived quality of the vehicle he bought. If someone buys a Honda for example, he might have bought it because he perceived the car to be reliable and when time came for the survey he may not be very accurate with his responses. Even though he could have had a problem with the car, he still perceives the car as reliable thus skewing the data. Either that or he wants to feel smart and progressive for buying a car that gets 30+ MPG and wants to encourage others to do the same. This is all conjecture so take it for what its worth
About the prices for service on many Japanese models. In February the oxygen sensor on our 01' Maxima went bad, we took it in and the dealership took 2.5 months took get the sensor in at a cost of 600$ to replace. Luckily they gave me a sentra as a rental free of charge for the entire time (the new sentra by the way makes a cavalier look like a Bentley) Which brings me to your point about quality. I have only owned Japanese cars, I currently own a Honda and a Nissan. It seems as if as you said quality in Japanese models is remaining constant, while still high, while domestics have risen tremendously. All cars that every person in my family has ever owned have been GM's and Fords (except me) and I have noticed that the vehicles of today have come very far from even as recently as 10 years ago. The reason I am now beginning to look at a domestic is because with the improvements that the big two have made in quality the cost to value advantage of buying a Japanese car is shrinking especially now with the higher price of the vehicles and service. Actually it can be argued that Nissan's quality has gone down sharply in the past several years, in my opinion due to growing too fast and releasing too many vehicles too fast, quality control seems to have gone way down.
I am still somewhat apprehensive about purchasing a Ford. I've had such good luck with my Honda's that I'm reluctant to make the switch. Im so impressed with everything about the F-150 t5hough that it looks like Im gonna give Ford a chance here. Its just a matter of playing the waiting game now. My car has 200k+ miles on it and Im waiting for the first major repair to get my truck. I like to keep my vehicles until they fall apart.
About the prices for service on many Japanese models. In February the oxygen sensor on our 01' Maxima went bad, we took it in and the dealership took 2.5 months took get the sensor in at a cost of 600$ to replace. Luckily they gave me a sentra as a rental free of charge for the entire time (the new sentra by the way makes a cavalier look like a Bentley) Which brings me to your point about quality. I have only owned Japanese cars, I currently own a Honda and a Nissan. It seems as if as you said quality in Japanese models is remaining constant, while still high, while domestics have risen tremendously. All cars that every person in my family has ever owned have been GM's and Fords (except me) and I have noticed that the vehicles of today have come very far from even as recently as 10 years ago. The reason I am now beginning to look at a domestic is because with the improvements that the big two have made in quality the cost to value advantage of buying a Japanese car is shrinking especially now with the higher price of the vehicles and service. Actually it can be argued that Nissan's quality has gone down sharply in the past several years, in my opinion due to growing too fast and releasing too many vehicles too fast, quality control seems to have gone way down.
I am still somewhat apprehensive about purchasing a Ford. I've had such good luck with my Honda's that I'm reluctant to make the switch. Im so impressed with everything about the F-150 t5hough that it looks like Im gonna give Ford a chance here. Its just a matter of playing the waiting game now. My car has 200k+ miles on it and Im waiting for the first major repair to get my truck. I like to keep my vehicles until they fall apart.
Last edited by mlazuka; May 1, 2005 at 10:58 PM.
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You do seem to have your ducks in a row, mlazuka.
Good point on the perceived value. Still, there have been enough examples to prove a level of prejudice on CR's car reports. I just tossed the ones that stuck in my mind.
I think that Nippon quality is down, no argument. But if you say that, someone always goes off half cocked, because they like their Honda, or their friend told them how good the Nissan was.
They seemed to have peaked, in the mid 80's. Still, they make darn good iron, today.
American iron bottomed out in the late 70's, and crept up till the early 90's and then has gotten better, faster.
A few peaks and valleys, but over all better.
The parts thing is still a nuisance. Even US brands are not quick with parts, but your odds are better...
On high mileage, I help a large, extended family find their usually used cars, Uncle Chris having been much involved in the automotive field.
I am shocked at how many cars do easily break the 200k barrier. When I was younger, it was rare to see anything with more than 100k. Now most cars can blast past that with any kind of maintenance , and 250 isn't rare. Say what you will, cars have never been better.
I get too bored with a car to keep it more than 50k or so. My oldest sister 'sucks the life' out of cars, expecting 10-15 years out of them. I keep them like new, and sell them when I get tired of them. Except when I sell them to family, I tend to get a pretty good percentage back. People like well maintained, low mileage cars.
Sorta averages out, I guess.
Well, have a great one
Chris
Good point on the perceived value. Still, there have been enough examples to prove a level of prejudice on CR's car reports. I just tossed the ones that stuck in my mind.
I think that Nippon quality is down, no argument. But if you say that, someone always goes off half cocked, because they like their Honda, or their friend told them how good the Nissan was.
They seemed to have peaked, in the mid 80's. Still, they make darn good iron, today.
American iron bottomed out in the late 70's, and crept up till the early 90's and then has gotten better, faster.
A few peaks and valleys, but over all better.
The parts thing is still a nuisance. Even US brands are not quick with parts, but your odds are better...
On high mileage, I help a large, extended family find their usually used cars, Uncle Chris having been much involved in the automotive field.
I am shocked at how many cars do easily break the 200k barrier. When I was younger, it was rare to see anything with more than 100k. Now most cars can blast past that with any kind of maintenance , and 250 isn't rare. Say what you will, cars have never been better.
I get too bored with a car to keep it more than 50k or so. My oldest sister 'sucks the life' out of cars, expecting 10-15 years out of them. I keep them like new, and sell them when I get tired of them. Except when I sell them to family, I tend to get a pretty good percentage back. People like well maintained, low mileage cars.
Sorta averages out, I guess.
Well, have a great one
Chris
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check this out
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/irep6e_20050506.htm
It looks as though CR has just changed their rating system. My guess is too many Asian cars were getting bumped from their recommended list due to poor crash test ratings since they updated back in March. So what do they do? They change they way they rate their cars. Talk about manipulating data, I guess this just reinforces what we were discussing earlier Chris.
The guys over Autoblog seem to agree
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000750042483/
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/irep6e_20050506.htm
It looks as though CR has just changed their rating system. My guess is too many Asian cars were getting bumped from their recommended list due to poor crash test ratings since they updated back in March. So what do they do? They change they way they rate their cars. Talk about manipulating data, I guess this just reinforces what we were discussing earlier Chris.
The guys over Autoblog seem to agree
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000750042483/
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,343
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From: Wichita Falls TX
Hey Chris and mlazuka, you guys sure hit the nail on the head with your critique of CR. I have always felt they were biased and viewed cars as appliances. I take their recommendations with a grain of salt, just as I do with most news.
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