Ford vs GM
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,728
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From: Damascus-Boring, Ore
IMO GM has always been the leader in how they handle difficult situations.....Ford and Chrysler could take a lesson in doing customer service.
Do you think it is a better legal department or a different corporate culture when it comes to this.
Maybe they just learn faster? GM had two major snafus in the last 20 years- the 5.7 diesels and the gas-tank fiasco on the pickups. The diesel thing helped kill a division, but the $1000 certificates everyone got that owned a pickup with dual tanks turn into a public relations coup- we're still cashing those in every once in awhile.
What GM learned, after decades of crappy customer service, is that major import competitors were using that as an effective tool to gain market share. Toyota and Honda have recalls too- but they tend to address problems before they turn into a runaway train.
Sooo...I guess the answer is "both." I bet, without knowing the goings on inside the two Companies, that there are fewer career ramifications inside GM when an engineer or exec comes to managment and says "we might have a problem here. How to we fix it."
Do you think it is a better legal department or a different corporate culture when it comes to this.
Maybe they just learn faster? GM had two major snafus in the last 20 years- the 5.7 diesels and the gas-tank fiasco on the pickups. The diesel thing helped kill a division, but the $1000 certificates everyone got that owned a pickup with dual tanks turn into a public relations coup- we're still cashing those in every once in awhile.
What GM learned, after decades of crappy customer service, is that major import competitors were using that as an effective tool to gain market share. Toyota and Honda have recalls too- but they tend to address problems before they turn into a runaway train.
Sooo...I guess the answer is "both." I bet, without knowing the goings on inside the two Companies, that there are fewer career ramifications inside GM when an engineer or exec comes to managment and says "we might have a problem here. How to we fix it."
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: 3rd Rock
What GM learned, after decades of crappy customer service, is that major import competitors were using that as an effective tool to gain market share.
Ford needs to learn this soon.
Ford needs to learn this soon.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
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Kinda of an interesting point about GM being proactive. In the Duramax they had a limited number of injector probelms with some of the first motors. What happened? a groovy 200,000 mile warranty. What has FMC done? Really ticked some folks off. I really believe there are far more 6.0 diesels with few or no issues out there but because of the way FMC has dealt with the minorty that do have issues has really left the company looking bad.
Just my $.02
Just my $.02
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
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From: Melbourne, Aus
I agree with what all you guys have said.
However, things are changing in blue oval land's customer service.
Just how quick they will change is another thing...
Ford has historically always been a arrogant company (like a customer "can have any color as long as its black"), but this is one area that Ford needs to change.
Their products are pretty darn good IMO.
If only they would ironically adhere to a Famous Henry Ford saying
"A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large."
Hmmm...
However, things are changing in blue oval land's customer service.
Just how quick they will change is another thing...
Ford has historically always been a arrogant company (like a customer "can have any color as long as its black"), but this is one area that Ford needs to change.
Their products are pretty darn good IMO.
If only they would ironically adhere to a Famous Henry Ford saying
"A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large."
Hmmm...
Last edited by BigF350; Apr 27, 2005 at 08:53 PM.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
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From: Melbourne, Aus
What are you saying Tim???
That the model T was only introduced yesterday?
Or...
In all seriousness
That is one example of Ford using its industrial power and size to enforce something on customers/other companies.
What about the attempted Ferrari takeover, and the money Ford spent on a racing program to try and destroy them.
Both the Pinto and the Firestone/Explorer Fiasco are other fine examples of Ford throwings its corporate weight around.
Consumers (fortunately or unfortunately) are getting more intelligent, and the industry is becoming far more transparent.
Ford will HAVE to change.
Whether they like it or not.
That the model T was only introduced yesterday?
Or...
In all seriousness
That is one example of Ford using its industrial power and size to enforce something on customers/other companies.
What about the attempted Ferrari takeover, and the money Ford spent on a racing program to try and destroy them.
Both the Pinto and the Firestone/Explorer Fiasco are other fine examples of Ford throwings its corporate weight around.
Consumers (fortunately or unfortunately) are getting more intelligent, and the industry is becoming far more transparent.
Ford will HAVE to change.
Whether they like it or not.
Last edited by BigF350; Apr 27, 2005 at 11:51 PM.
Tuned
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 311
Likes: 3
From: Arkansas
Don't know if any of ya'll have noticed but Ford IS stepping up to the plate a lot more now. I've never had any problems with customer service the few times I've taken my truck in. Ford did a good job handling early problems on the GT, Mustang, and F-150. No car manufacturer is exempt...BMW and Mercedes have had sub-par quality and service ratings over recent years. GM's piston slap issue is no better than the Triton spark plugs or Dodge's rearends. Find me a company that doesn't practice the money game when it comes to a problem and it's consumers and I'll show you a company that only sells $500,000 cars.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: 3rd Rock
That the model T was only introduced yesterday
...and big, now you really know my age
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New User
Joined: Apr 2005
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same
I just read the other day GM was first in losses. Ford wasn't far behind in losses.
I belive it was on yahoo..
Health care cost, gas prices and the foreign markets are taking down the u.s. economy
I belive it was on yahoo..
Health care cost, gas prices and the foreign markets are taking down the u.s. economy
Last edited by arcticcatmatt; Apr 28, 2005 at 04:44 PM. Reason: typo
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,728
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From: Damascus-Boring, Ore
2000BLK54 "GM's piston slap issue is no better than the Triton spark plugs or Dodge's rearends."
I know I've beat this one to death, but there is a huge difference. That slap-happy GM motor will continue the "problem" for a few hundred thousand miles. We haven't seen any customers have to call a tow truck because they heard piston slap for the first 15-45 seconds after they fired the car or truck up in the morning.
That being said, it's really a matter of attitude on the problem of the manufacturer. There will always be problems- it's how you solve them that counts.
I know I've beat this one to death, but there is a huge difference. That slap-happy GM motor will continue the "problem" for a few hundred thousand miles. We haven't seen any customers have to call a tow truck because they heard piston slap for the first 15-45 seconds after they fired the car or truck up in the morning.
That being said, it's really a matter of attitude on the problem of the manufacturer. There will always be problems- it's how you solve them that counts.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 161,999
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From: 3rd Rock
Originally Posted by arcticcatmatt
I just read the other day GM was first in losses. Ford wasn't far behind in losses.
I belive it was on yahoo..
Health care cost, gas prices and the foreign markets are taking down the u.s. economy
I belive it was on yahoo..
Health care cost, gas prices and the foreign markets are taking down the u.s. economy
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,378
Likes: 3
From: nebraska
What I hate is when a companys certain product has a defect and there slow to correct the problem. Look at the Dodge Dakota and Durangoe. Wheels were falling off those vehicles for 3 years before Dodge stepped in and had a recall. After the govermnet got on there case. Thats just an example. GMs piston slap is another. After five years they still have it. Not saying its bad why didnt GM remedy this problem when it first occured. It has cost them some market share in trucks as well as resale value. If you start a truck up and it makes a racket. Id be scared of it. Wouldnt you. Fords been guilty of this practice as well but they do try to remedy problems. If GMs losing market share it could be some off the reason why.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,728
Likes: 1
From: Damascus-Boring, Ore
GMs piston slap is another. After five years they still have it. Not saying its bad why didnt GM remedy this problem when it first occured. It has cost them some market share in trucks as well as resale value. I'd like to see that documented- GM's full-size market share has been increasing through this timeframe. If you start a truck up and it makes a racket.
Have you ever actually heard this piston slap? It's a soft ticking noise for the first 15-45 seconds after you start the engine up. Fire up a 5.4 cold- you'll hear the exact same thing.
Have you ever actually heard this piston slap? It's a soft ticking noise for the first 15-45 seconds after you start the engine up. Fire up a 5.4 cold- you'll hear the exact same thing.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,511
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From: Marion, VA
Yes, I've heard it. It's a soft ticking like a jack hammer is a light tapping. It does make you forget about the puff of smoke that comes out of some of them. When the problem was first discovered, GM was repairing or replacing engines until they realized how many were out there and it suddenly became "normal". If I'm buying a vehicle and it has a unnatural sound on startup, I figure the worst and deduct the cost of repair in my offer.