I have a general question regarding the tuning of the suspension on my '66. Although I understand the ride is stiffer than that of the newer trucks, I would like to get a little softer ride than what is currently being delivered. It has what appears to be a standard non-gas shock installed all the way around and recovery after bumps or dips are within one cycle of the shock absorber so I believe they are working correctly. I also know there are a multitude of shocks available that offer different ratios of compression but I'd rather not experiment when there are so many that have plowed this row before. I still have to remove the additional rear coils added by the PO but the front is just as quick and stiff as the rear.

Thanks,

Steve

 

Steve,
I just wrote in the "more tire questions" thread about Progressive shocks I use made by monroe called Sensa Tracs.

These shocks ride soft when not loaded hard or quick but their variable characteristics will compensate instantaneously when called on. The mechanics & design is such the harder I lean on them the more they resist, yet still flex enough to maintain the quality footprint loading so as to allow tire/ tread belt to "Stick" like the painted line, if your
tires are up to that.

I 1st ran these on a nasty 85 5.0 EFI T-Bird I have. I had a hard time believing what an improvement these variable constant tuning shocks made! This Bird is a 30th Aniv, latter day, "hot rod", that loves to run and to be pushed to perform . . . . Compared to standard shocks or radial tuned shocks the progressive shocks are profound IMHO.

Yes they're on the pricey side, buyt Hell, my family & I are worth it. Read what I wrote then go to Monroe Site & check them out. I got my best prices at my NAPA FWIW to ya. I wanted a "tighter" ride so I opted for Poly Graphite Bushings but it can get on Mammas' nerves. . . . . if you catch my drift there?

In closing, incase you do not know this, Poly Urethane & Poly Graphite bushings make the ride a tad tighter while OEM/ Butyl bushings make rides a tad more cushy than Polys do. If creature comfort & safety combined are your goal, check out the Sensa Tracs and Butyl OEM type suspension bushings etc.

Mamma has a rather neat 4X4 Aero Star with the 4.0 V6 & all wheel drive. It runs full set of Sensa Tracs but has the OEM Butyl Bushings, and Michelins on genuine Shelby 500 American Slots ( 200mph billet wheels) it rides great and handles excellently up in the Mtns of western Carolina like along Hwy 64 etc. It's just not as harsh as my Slick, my 88 F 150 beater or my Bird are.

If you don't have anti sway bar set ups, ya might want to keep an eye out among the salvage yards for one from a 73-79. Set up from F250 with a GVW under 6900# will fit with a little fudging, it clamps in place on axle housing tubes in rear, and to frame & radius arms in front. Sometimes front radius arm mounting must be fabricated or the arms changed ( I fabricate because I like the cast style arms better than the stamped ones of the later models. (it's an aesthetic thing Steve. . . . )

FBp

 

Wow! I'm sold, and I wasn't even looking into shocks right now. If I didn't know better, I'd think Pete worked for Monroe - good pitch. I'm fairly sure I need new springs on my old f-100, but reading this makes me think I better plan on investing in some decent shocks while I'm at it.

Thanks Fbp. - great info

 

Yes indeed.
This is exactly the kind of response I was looking for. I think my only additional concern was that maybe the spring rate needed to be changed but for a very small investment I can try the progressive monroes. You know, I didn't even realize there was a transition of cast to stamped. I just need to pay more attention. Thanks again, FBP!

 

Damn I have been on this board since the late mid 90s and up until this point and time we talked about engines, trannies, and chassis. Now we are in the fine hair splitting arena of multi use shocks and tires. I am enjoying reading these threads while wondering at the same time how many trucks in our presents or owners there of could tell the difference in the use of said items.

I aint dissing anybody, but wonder silently if I could possiabily tell any difference in my truck, and while wanting to believe, I find myself still at the alter.

Steve, Yes removing the rear coils under your truck will soften your ride. That should be step one. I have never owned a short bed truck so I am not familier with it's ride, but the lwb 66s that I have tend to be soft anyways.

Adding antisway bars would be something I would look at also before multi tasking front shocks. My truck has serious rebound issues on the front and I know the bars would make a difference. I have access to a setup, just hasn't made it up to the top yet.

Yall keep on writing and I'll keep on reading, and using filters with my glasses. LOL

John

 

I know this sounds like bench racing smoke and all that, but consider this. . . .
NASCAR Cup cars weigh in at 3500 lbs, about the weight of an average 65-6, F Series FoMoCo truck, agreed?

The Cup Boyz run around Laguna Seca & Watkins Glen well over 100+ mph, on slicks. Slicks are not the best cornering skins because once they let go, they're gone. But in the case of tires with siping & correct tread patterns, they will sidestep as they start letting go. It's called lateral grip factor. This takes a shock and suspension that works in accord with what ever is taking place where rubber meets the road, agreed again?

Okay so NASCAR has gotten into tuned suspensions. They drive their Rounder Cars, used to banked turns, clean pavement and smooth straightaways around road courses amazingly fast nowadays. It's designing & building suspensions that work making it all possible and it's right there before our eyes. I want it all when I ride on the roads!

I mean ideally I want to be able run up to and even slightly "cross the edge" but get it back & still maintain control < KEY WORD CONTROL ! I'm so **** I want to be able to go around a turn with the thing "hung out", tires slightly breaking loose in a forward plane, but not sidestepping into a slide in the sideways plane. At Least nomore than I can "tolerate", deal with, and control. In otherwords I am riding on the edge and I can lose it or control it at will. Now I know that sounds crazy. I don't ride around like that all the time. . . . .BUT, if and when I have to, or want to, I need to be in control of it leaving nothing to chance, fate, other people, or blind luck.

My truck drivin' Dad said to me, years ago after I qualified for my chauffers' license>
"BOY! Don't drive yourself into any situation ya cain't drive yourself out of. . . . ."
Pay off comes as I escape a collision or wreck because I'm able to maneuver around it, or otherwise maintain and use enough control to avoid getting caught up in it.

A more personal vien is when am driving along and come up upon the rear of one of the "worlds ultimate driving machines" driven by a lay person who doesn't really know how to handle "a worlds ultimate driving machine" and I ignite his Ire, causing him to persue me trying to run me down, and pass me back. Common sense says slow down and let "the worlds ultimate driving machine go". But what fun is that? . Moreover, how safe is it if that jerk starts goading & hounding me to show me a thing or two?

It's much safer and more fun to raise the bar taking the whole thing up into the huge numbers causing "the worlds greatest driving machine" to fall back unable to keep up in turns and short straight aways. [I'll qualify that, My truck is not able to out run BMWs over straightaways a few miles long, but it owns average straightaways. That's
what it was built to do. It has handling, displacement, power and response to do it.

Running into a sweeping curve at 70-75 mph & coming out the other side +40 or +50 mph faster causes most "worlds greatest driving machines to fade back". I know that sounds insane, it is to some degree. But I'm telling ya that's what a good suspension, tuned to your vehicle, your driving style & topography you do most of your driving on, provides you with. Insanity aside, I see that as a positive capability & best insurance I will not get caught up in some wreck caused by somebody else. I could produce 10s of people who can relate stories of some wrecks we have managed to dodge because I could, and would do it.

I jumped lanes on an Interstate and drove away from going under a Semi at 75 mph because I had the room and the machine to do it. Without that, I would not be here telling y'all about it, my daughter would not be away at college either. . . .

So as wild & hare brained as it may sound, the whole notion I have about being here, now, in the 21st century with my mid 20th century looking FoMoCo F100 is all about stuff like this. Brakes, steering, suspension, power, performance, tuned handling, and even more economical, efficient operation all matter to me. I walk around wondering how and what I can do to improve what I have. . . .?

Do I want to ride the next 40 miles behind this 35mph Log truck or dripping livestock hauler? Or do I want to be able to jump instantly but safely around him at my next available opportunity?. . . . . . . Duh - huh?

See what I'm saying? don't drive like a fool, be in control like a pro instead. . . .

CIAO Y'all
FBp

 

The bar has been raised.

John

 

Steve asked a good question, and Pete gave us an answer and then some. I have to agree with Fbp on this - and suspension tuning is the key to getting the best handling out of any vehicle. Unfortunately, not too many of us have the knowledge nor equipment to do a complete job at it, so Steve asks the right question looking for those who have done some tweaking here and relay their experience and recommendations.

When I had my '65 Mustangs, I had good results with slightly beefier front coil springs, 1" front sway bar, 3/4" rear sway bar, polyurethane bushings all around and KYB Gas-adjust shocks. Hell ya I (and anyone else who had owned and driven a stock suspension Mustang) could tell a positive difference in the handling.

Now, I hope to do the same with my Slick. Pete - I've not heard too many positives for Monroe shocks - but sounds like their Sensa Tracs might be decent. What I see from numerous car and truck forums is that those shocks with multi-variable valving seem to perform well. I have asked Edlebrock about IAS shocks for our Slicks, but they don't make them. Bilstein and Koni are also very highly regarded (but pricy). I was thinking about trying KYB's on my '66 F100, but will look into these Monroe's now.

I will also look into sway bars (at least for the front), but I had heard an early '70's sway bar would be a direct bolt on. Is this not true? I'm all for responsiveness, so I'm going poly bushings where I can. If anybody has done the real leaf spring bushings in poly let us know if they are worth the money. Another important aspect to handling is good quality rubber - but that is food for another thread, but plays into the overall "tuning" theme here.

I hope to see more feedback on what shocks people have used and their results.....

Cheers,
David

 

I'm ashamed to admit the reason for this thread was my crossing an intersection at a little more than appropriate speeds and the double jump was in perfect timing to the response of the suspension. I am completely certain the truck left the ground and that shocks and swaybars may not have helped but the rebound could have been better. Being a straight line jump with no braking or cornering was a blessing because any other variable could have been too much for the system. While riding motorcross I learned the worst scenario was riding in unfamiliar territory at speeds which allow no way out. I hit that same scenario on the road and have re-learned that lesson!

 

David,
Yes, 73 through 79 will intercgange, or install on a 65 & later. The Trailer specials & light duty F250s fit and it you need a really stout anti sway bar set up you can use an F 350 also, but it is tight & hard riding. You may have to diddle around creating a link mount bracket if you prefer the forged style radius arme, but if you do not the latmped steel later versions work & so do their link mount brackets. . . .

They are multivalving with variable compression unloading. Slow loading gets a firmer resistance while "qwik" or "hard" loading will have more give.

For example in Steves "confession" above, he mentioned rebound . . . . Sensa Tracs would "forgive" radical impact by absorbing much of the landing force, quickly dampen so as to control (reduce or eliminate) rebound completely.

As for front only antisway Bars, once you guys run rears you'll change your opinion. I certainly did. While I'm spouting off here, just installing hardware is not actually tuning your suspension, altho' it's a huge improvement over std shocks & no Anti-Sway Bars at all.

Tuning happens when 1 considers factors involved in handling of a particular vehicle. It could be either reasonable estimations and educated guesswork, or you could break out the ol' calculator and using engineering principles and algorythyms calculate the rates and loading factors to a scientific finite amount. (unnecessary & overly complex)
The objective is putting together matched components to make suspension do what you want it to do under different conditions & circumstances, when you want it to do it, on demand. For all intents & purposes tuning street suspension doesn't require the sophistication that dialing in suspension on an Indy "IRL", or NASCAR CUP Car does. It only takes being aware that you can dial in your suspension, and that you can find or figure out what takes to do it. There are plenty of articles and books on this subject.

FBp

 

I was just thinking about having the springs rearched and a stock shock. Thanks to FBP I am looking at antisway bars and different shocks. I still will not have all the power he does just dont think a 240 has that much but it does great as long as it is respected and driven in its limits

 

frty7ford,
Altho tuned suspension (in my thinking) is mandatory to maximize big power, it's really an ehnacement when installed & used on any vehicle.

Upgrading and "tuning" suspension improves control & ride quality, which contribute to more safety, driveability and thus more peace of mind across the motoring board, not withstanding power train, driving conditions, or peoples habits, so to speak.

A 240 CID I-6 may not reach highway speeds in short time or distance a huge power plant can, but 240s certainly go down the road fast enough to injure or kill in a wreck or collision. Notice I don't say "accident".

Few, "real" accidents take place in my opinion. Accident is a "legal" term necessary facilitate a law suits/ trial attorneys need to make big $$$$. Also, the term ACCIDENT enables people to avoid having to accept blame for something they probably could've averted or avoided and/or often not have caused [as they do in many cases], if they knew what to do & how to do it, plus had a vehicle capable of doing it. . . .

I'm a lot less interested in fault or blame and lawyers or trials than I am in being able to not get caught up in peoples mistakes, ignorance or inabilities. More folks there are on the roads and the more I accumulate wreck free mileage, higher my risk potentials become, based on the theory of mathematical probabilities.

So to me great suspension along with other technology like seat belts, crumple zone design & engineering, crash or roll bars, good tires, disc brakes, variable load (slipper type) power steering and so forth, plus a willingness and ability to use these new tech enhancements to my advantage, when I need or want to, is an edge for me & anyone with me if/ when it all goes "bad" around me in traffic. So far this due sort of dilligence has paid off for me/us.

What I'm saying is; Limits of lesser power trains may reduce quickness, but they do not by any stretch reduce common normal operating speeds on roads or highways, nor do they reduce driving conditions or risks of the road. . . There's a difference between being quick and being fast, the way I parse it out.

Fast = Mph, while Quick pertains to time it takes to reach "fast" or increase mph.

Both our rigs will run 80 mph or better, as will rigs with even less. It just takes longer for a rig with less to do it. . . . but it's not going fast or getting there quickly that's a problem. It's the energy of impact(s) as speeds increase that is the problem. Sudden stops or serial impacts [if you will allow] are the problem. Averting or avoiding all that is only achievable thru having good control and ability to use it. . . . This is my point and is also why I share it with y'all too. Life's great and worth living & saving.

I'm totally convinced above info in this thread is a way to improve success of saving lives while improving our great trucks & getting better, more comfortable, fun, ride too.

FBp

 

I am convinced also. I am Thinking about getting the springs rearched new front coils the above mentioned shocks and sway bars front and rear. The bigest problem I see is my wanting to keep the stock tire size. I am not willing to switch to power steering yet. I like the way the truck drives with this narrower tire on it

 

I think you're half-right, here. I can see where the "more folks there are on the roads" might increase one's probability for a wreck or collision. But, I'm wondering about "the more I accumulate wreck free mileage" part.

If you say in general terms, the probability of anyone getting into a wreck is X%, and you go out and drive today and are wreck-free. I think this event is independant of the event of driving tomorrow. And, therefore, tomorrow, the probability of getting into a wreck remains X%. Kind of like flipping a coin. Each event is independant, right? You may come up heads 10 times in a row, however, the probability of the next toss coming up heads is still 50%.

Or, you could look at it this way. The longer you drive wreck-free, it is possible the LESS likely you are to be in a wreck. Your past driving performance may indicate that you are a good driver, and are not "accident-prone". I think the auto insurance companies subscribe to this one...

 

I recently discarded my ICC Log Books which documented over 2,000,000 recorded miles in a diesel car over a 30 year period. I've also worn out my share of cars trucks and Harley D's over the years too.

I acumulated over 150 moving citations from 47 of the contiguous 48 states (which I also saved to wall paper my play room with) & God only knows how many non-moving citations. I probably deserved 2/3 or perhaps 3/4s of the moving citations, but many were bogus. Never the less with all the citations, and all that mileage I have not been in a chargeable collision, altho I've been involved in other people colliding or wrecking into me. Most of those I just couldn't believe what happened. . . .

I've been cited for evading wrecks with improper lane changes or use or a restricted lane ( Chicago on the Eisenhower Expwy to avoid a stupid taxi that cut in front of me and hit the guy in the car infront of me, which the taxi driver apparently did not know was riding there minding his own business at the posted truck speed. Hot Shot taxi man assumed I was just riding at the truck limit. . .WRONG!, Had all I couod do to keep from dragging 48,000 Lbs of load and 30,000 lbs of Peterbilt over those two idiots, but I pulled it off, and stopped up ahead to see if I could assist. . . .

The Chicago "roller" wrote me up for using left lane & for stopping on the expressway. The guy in the passenger car had his attorney write a letter, and the Chicago court dismissed both charges against me, but that's what happens to Pro Drivers with huge mileage. You're right, I work at evading and avoiding wrecks, and that is part of the reason for having some sticky suspension, good handling & spare power. If I find the room I need, I'll get in it. People get upset every time I do that ( i usually cut them off during my escape) but I'll settle for upset instead of injury or death to someone.
So I guess tactically I probably am a pretty fair driver, but I don't odediently stay in my lane either trying to stop in time or or drive into a wreck. Law men don't take very kindly to me driving like that, and the folks I cut off get bent out of shape, but I don't care and that's one reason I am alive to sit here writing on my computer today.
I'd sacrifice my vehicle in a sideswipe before I'd crash into something head on. It's all in the sciences and fields of physics & engineering.
You're probably correct, but I still feel a law of averages is agin' me and I don't mess around on account of that.

FBp