16.5 mpg today
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by Fredvon4
you are running 87 regular gasoline ...right? Or are you stuck burning some of that supposedly "Clean air" oxygenated crap?
The oxygenated "crap" you talk about, at least the 10% Ethanol is LESS likely to ping, the Ethanol is a higher octane (or at least, less predisposed to detonation).
But that's at around 30-40 feet above sea level
art k.
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Art my experience is different and I have to admit that these motors have a very broad range of what fuel they do or do not like.
Here in Central Texas I get 87 regular and all my Ford motors seem to prefer Chevron
Out at my folks in Arizona, 4-5K foot altitude they get the oxygenated Ethanol MTBE blend and it does not audibly ping for me but my power is way down. Yes I know about altitude but I arrive with good stuff, and for the week it is ok but the fill up with local gas is very noticeable power loss. I am assuming a detected ping, and ignition retard to stop it, as the power loss reason.
Up in Colorado the clean air blend is not as dramatic and up there I am at 7-10K altitudes so you would figure it to be even worse but I have good power up there.
Curious huhh?
Here in Central Texas I get 87 regular and all my Ford motors seem to prefer Chevron
Out at my folks in Arizona, 4-5K foot altitude they get the oxygenated Ethanol MTBE blend and it does not audibly ping for me but my power is way down. Yes I know about altitude but I arrive with good stuff, and for the week it is ok but the fill up with local gas is very noticeable power loss. I am assuming a detected ping, and ignition retard to stop it, as the power loss reason.
Up in Colorado the clean air blend is not as dramatic and up there I am at 7-10K altitudes so you would figure it to be even worse but I have good power up there.
Curious huhh?
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Very curious - Is that stuff at the 4-5K alt what you say, it's an "Ethanol MTBE blend" ? That's not something we run here, it's only been seasonal MTBE, and now, apparently, year-round Ethanol at 10%. Otherwise known as Gasohol from the '70's ...
I'm a very seat-of-the-pants kinda guy, and all three combos never effected my posterior
But then, I don't run that "radical blend" if that's what you meant. I notice the difference in performance when I remove the rubber bed mat, all of 50lbs maybe... so, I think I'd notice the difference.
When you do the 4-5K alt thing again, crack the gas cap and see if you have pressure ...
Sorry to hijack the thread, I'll shut up now...
I'm a very seat-of-the-pants kinda guy, and all three combos never effected my posterior
But then, I don't run that "radical blend" if that's what you meant. I notice the difference in performance when I remove the rubber bed mat, all of 50lbs maybe... so, I think I'd notice the difference.When you do the 4-5K alt thing again, crack the gas cap and see if you have pressure ...
Sorry to hijack the thread, I'll shut up now...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Best place on earth-Maine
A possible answer as to why the Ethanol/MTBE fuels don't seem to yeild as much power may be due to the fact that they don't have the heating value of straight gasoline. I haven't done any information right off the top of my head to validate this, but it seems that I remember hearing that alcohol doesn't have the same specific energy, or heating value (BTU/gal) that gasoline does. This may be the answer to the loss of power felt when using these fuels. I don't think that the octane rating is a factor - everywhere I have seen in the U.S. uses the (R+M)/2 method to determine octane, regardless of the actual fuel composition. I hope this wasn't confusing. I can try to elaborate further on any questions or comments.
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Art
As far as I can tell at the pump (I almost always use Chevron) the label for the clean air notice indicates oxygenated Ethanol MTBE blend and some listing on percentages and months of effect. I really don't pay close enough attention and nearing 50 my brain cells don't dig out all the minutia as accurately as days gone by.
The real point I try to get across to everyone is that; 1) Ford has a WHOLE lot of different program codes, 2) Ford motors are fairly finicky when it comes to gasoline brands, 3) these 99-2006 modular motors and power trains seem to take MUCH longer to break in than I remember my old cast iron motors taking, 4) Altitude, load, and quality of fuel are all factors 5) it seems to me as a casual observer on many different web sites that we super Duty owners post a very wide range of fuel efficiency numbers. So I tend to think that the real common denominator is the differences in fuel we all have access to.
My personal experience is that when I Have to get clean air fuel I can detect a loss of power. When I get back to sea level Texas I can feel the motor come back alive with the very first tank of straight Chevron (w/techron) 87 RON BTW today $2.189.
My gut is we will never see sub $2.00 ever again
As far as I can tell at the pump (I almost always use Chevron) the label for the clean air notice indicates oxygenated Ethanol MTBE blend and some listing on percentages and months of effect. I really don't pay close enough attention and nearing 50 my brain cells don't dig out all the minutia as accurately as days gone by.
The real point I try to get across to everyone is that; 1) Ford has a WHOLE lot of different program codes, 2) Ford motors are fairly finicky when it comes to gasoline brands, 3) these 99-2006 modular motors and power trains seem to take MUCH longer to break in than I remember my old cast iron motors taking, 4) Altitude, load, and quality of fuel are all factors 5) it seems to me as a casual observer on many different web sites that we super Duty owners post a very wide range of fuel efficiency numbers. So I tend to think that the real common denominator is the differences in fuel we all have access to.
My personal experience is that when I Have to get clean air fuel I can detect a loss of power. When I get back to sea level Texas I can feel the motor come back alive with the very first tank of straight Chevron (w/techron) 87 RON BTW today $2.189.
My gut is we will never see sub $2.00 ever again
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MTBE???
Are you guys sure you're actually getting MTBE?
MTBE has been listed as a hazardous substance leaching in to waterways and aquifers.
They won't let us in the military run anything with MTBE and I was told it was because it was being phased out for other oxygenators, Alcohols and Non-Hazardous chemicals.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/mtbeban/table1.html
Chaz
Are you guys sure you're actually getting MTBE?
MTBE has been listed as a hazardous substance leaching in to waterways and aquifers.
They won't let us in the military run anything with MTBE and I was told it was because it was being phased out for other oxygenators, Alcohols and Non-Hazardous chemicals.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/mtbeban/table1.html
Chaz
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
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From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by UtChaz
MTBE???
Are you guys sure you're actually getting MTBE?
MTBE has been listed as a hazardous substance leaching in to waterways and aquifers.
They won't let us in the military run anything with MTBE and I was told it was because it was being phased out for other oxygenators, Alcohols and Non-Hazardous chemicals.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/mtbeban/table1.html
Chaz
Are you guys sure you're actually getting MTBE?
MTBE has been listed as a hazardous substance leaching in to waterways and aquifers.
They won't let us in the military run anything with MTBE and I was told it was because it was being phased out for other oxygenators, Alcohols and Non-Hazardous chemicals.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/mtbeban/table1.html
Chaz
Fred, I hear you! I'm just trying to add another datum to the statistical universe, someone who says "what difference" ???
I do notice a difference between gas stations and brands, though...
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