Well after a few months of hard work, including new exhaust, tires, seat, all new electric(painless harness), body work, cleaning, new rear springs, and a bunch of other stuff it takes to revive a truck after basically twenty years of inactivity I was ready to be inspected and start driving it-or so I thought. I went less than a mile from my house and blew either a head or intake gasket, argghhh. But you know the old saying when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. So after feeling sorry for myself for the last couple of days Ive to turn this misfortune and turn it into an oppurtunity.

The trucks setup now is 352 and 3 on the tree(65 styleside), no p/s or disc brakes, and I would love to go with smaller more fuel efficient engine and auto tranny maybe even an overdrive. Im not looking to do a perfect restoration but mainly enjoy it as a work truck/cruiser/hobby.

So anyway Im taking this chance to look at a few options.
1. Sheet metal swap with a later model truck. This would give me a perfect oppurtunity to repair my cab mounts which have severe rust damage.
2. Find a donor and swap the drivetrain, and front end(p/s, DB) out of it.
3. Rebuild the FE or swap an FE in for it- I know that any 352, 360, 390 will work but Im wondering how modern of an engine can I find? When did ford stop using the 360's in cars?

Im not sure I trust myself to rebuild the FE, it would be my first rebuild.

Any thoughts, Ideas, and suggestions are welcome as always.

Thanks,

Nick

 

Mine is a 66, but like you im not very comfortabull with the Fe motor I have. It runs well and has a lot of low end tq and all, but I am leary of doing any rebuild on it. on the other hand i am very familiar with the 289 302 351w Series of motors ( I am a marine tech and we see these motors all the time ) so im looking for a doner Crown victoria car to get the 351 winsor and a aod trany out of,They are easyer to build and their is a ton of performance parts out there for them. So I will be going to a 351 winsor and eather a performance Aod or 700R4 trany.

But my Truck has realy grown on me and all I want is the best for her

 

Nick, why not just put in a new head gasket and run it like you originally planned? Or are you sure it needs a rebuild? Head gaskets are a quick and cheap fix as opposed to your other options you mentioned.

 

Nick, Don't be afraid of the FE, the one in my 66 now has about 25,000 miles on it. I have a new 390 sitting on an engine stand waiting for me to assemble my other 66. I live in the east coast state of NC, with proper funding I would not be afraid to drive my 66 to Cal. pickup a truck and pull it back to NC on my 18 ft. car hauler. I am confident in my truck, don't know if my ol butt could take the trip, though.

I think now if I had a chance to do it all over again, I would swap my sheet metal over to a newer chassis, The gas tank is under the chassis so you would have a little more room in the cab for speakers and storage.

The 360 was never put in a car, it is a truck engine only and was last installed in 76, and late 60s in the cars when the last 390 was installed.

I wish the best for you.


John

 

Nick,
I agree with John on both counts, 1st an FE is a noble & reliable engine on its' own merit. The 352 CID's were respectable examples of that.

However, on the other hand, my personal Slick is a '66, F100, SWB, Style Side, Custom Cab, 2Wd, I've owned since '73. It sits quite well & very proudly on a rare, '79, F150, SWB, Trailer Special chassis with upgrades that propel it squarely into the 21st century, which we incidently now find ourselves into.

Besides bigger/better PDBs, Front & Rear Anti Sway Bars, Better Suspension Great P/S, an A/T that didn't even exist in 66, I also have a rear mounted, in frame fuel tank, spare tire carrier, more cabin room behind the seat where my fuel tank used to be [ & kept me on edge being there, I'll add] makes a great storage area for crusin' & road trips. I used split back bench seat from a late model super cab & access a cooler in my storage area as I drive along.

Best of all I have my 460, I've many other choices of great FoMoCo engines too, all of which interface with later frame/chassis set up, bolt in, using OEM Parts, like frame stands, engine brackets, mounts &/or insulators, exhaust systems parts & lots of neat later model, newer tech stuff.

All Brake lines are dual system & intact, no adapting/ engineering, swapping. No steering & suspension parts to change none of that extra work involved in Up Grading pre 73 chassis. Later rear ends are + 3" wider than 61-72s are, Plus have bigger, rear, brakes too!

I have done it both ways, several times, over many years. There's no real comparison, IMHO, between total upgrade using a donor chassis, & the older practice of methodically upgrading early trucks one system at a time. Unless of course you are a glutton for punishment preferring lots of work & expense. I doubt I'll rebuild an upgrade into another early model slick anytime soon, But if a client insists & I do, I'll be sure to charge my client fully for it.

There are a few things you need to work out, like positioning of bed, redrilling
bed mounting bolt holes and plug/filling the old, earlier, holes because of the extra rear frame rail width, front is the same, and compenstaing for the extra length 3" MOL over all by fudging some. but everything else for a 65 & later is a bolt up deal. Use body insulators to fit the year chassis used. Also make sure such an Upgrade will fly with your states DOT or DMV. . . .

I suggest you consider it "a repair", be sure always call your newer chassis a replacement & not an Upgrade or retro fit, at least as far as the DOT or DMV is concerned. On bill of sale you get for a donor, along with other paperwork, make certain it mentions sold, or bought as replacement repair part/ parts.
And get a title if you can, other wise you meay need to get a bill of sale from a legitimate salvage yard or dealer to pull it off. . . .

IMHO, it's worth whatever it takes to make it happen. My 66 looks like a 66 but drives, handles, and performs like 2006, and it's not only safer, it's more comfortable, roomier, and more stout w/ trailer special, or any 73-79 chassis actually. . . .

Good luck, do your homework, line your ducks up right, develop a plan, when you're all set go at it. There's a load of possible interchanges to be achieved by swapping to later chassis/ frame. I consider all positive, progressive, steps
or improvements, and the easiest, quickest, least costly way to accomplish them all.

And that's how I feel about it. . . . .

FBp

 

Thanks for the responses guys, there are so many options and I really want to do something that will last and most importantly I will enjoy and be proud of. As far as just replacing the head or inake gasket, the thing that scares me is the truck wasnt really hot when it blew, it never smoked and really gave no warning signs so Im wondering why? I would really like some assurance that this wont happen again. I know there are no gaurantees whichever direction I choose. The idea of pulling the sheet metal off of mine and doing the baody work that needs done while looking for a donor is starting to grow on me. One question is are the 4x4 and 4x2 frames similar or should I limit my search to two wheel drives. Im taking the FE apart this week so I should know more when I can look inside. I did take the Fuel pump out and look inside at the timing chain and its still on there, however when I looked in there there was a cream colored film that coated everything which I think is not good and led me to beleive a rebuild might be needed. My backround is really a part swapper and not a mechanic so all this is really new to me, but Im wanting to learn as much as I can so keep the great info coming and Ill keep asking questions.

 

Nick
The cream colored slim you were seeing was probably water mixed with oil from either a blown head gasket or intake gasket. If the truck was not smoking before the gasket blew it would probably be worth your wild to pull the intake and heads and install new gaskets. If the truck has set for 20 years like you stated in your first post chances are that the gaskets dried out or just got weak were water sat for so long without circulation. I have a 352 in my 65 and just love that old work horse.
Either way it would be fun just to tear into it to see what might have happened. It's also a great way to learn more about your FE.

Good luck

jd

 

Nick,

Just a quick word from someone who has "been there done that". I started with a 66 that hadn't been on the road in 5 years (and hadn't been treated well before that). I started with a simple plan to have a neat "go to the dump" truck and ended up going the upgrade route and did a 5.0FI out of a Mustang GT, AOD, PS, PDB, and fuel tank mounted between the frame. I also pulled the body and sand blasted and painted the frame while I was there. The good news is that the truck has been reliable for almost 5 years and around 50K miles. It gets about 20mpg highway and is pretty comfortable, safe, and relatively quick with a 3:55 rear end. Also the parts exchange was pretty easy and cheap (I used the wiring from the GT and all the brake parts, mounts, and even the drive shaft were easy to come by).

The bad news is that all this work takes awhile to assemble and put into the truck and definitely changes it from a "lets fix this up to have some fun" short term project into the realm of "I'm sorry but the garage is going to be tied up for the next four months" type of project.

I agree with the post above that talks about changing the head gasket and intake gaskets to fix what you've got as the easiest solution to your current dilema. Then, you can start to play with upgrade ideas as time allows.

If you want to do the upgrades that's great but figure out what it will cost in time and money, double it and you're probably close.

I've got pics of what I did in the gallery if you're interested.

Either way -- enjoy!!

Bill

 

well tommorrow a freind and I (he doesnt know it yet) are going to open up the engine and take a look. Ive decide to take you guys advice and fix the 352 if it doesnt take a total rebuild and then start planning for a future upgrade. I would love to do something like what youve got there Bill with AOD and EFI that would be Ideal. Anyway wish me luck and Ill keep everybody posted.

thanks,

Nick

 

I don't understand some folks' fear of the FE...they're all just engines with pushrods, gears, etc all pretty much in the same place. The only downside to the FE is the cost of some replacement parts, but if you're a savvy shopper this too is not a big deal.
The FE is a simple, sturdy engine and is easy to work on. Changing to a 'modern' drivetrain with fuel injection, Duraspark, etc is a lot of wiring to deal with for one thing (especially if you dislike wiring as much as I do).
Aside from the really, really, really heavy intake manifold, working on your FE should be easy.

 

The FE gets no respect. Find the problem, reassemble and run it. I would bet it would still outlive whatever motor you want to replace it with. Why butcher oil iron? Many of us on the this forum understand and respect their beast. True in their day when gas was $.19 a gallon they proved their worth. Had to sound off after running FE's over 940,000 miles. I'll shut up now.

Carl....=o&o>....

 

I would like to clear something up, Im not scared of and do not have anything against my FE. But if the block is cracked or the crankshaft is busted then I will probably replace it with a newer smaller more efficeint motor that is tailored to my needs. I recognize for power and durability the FE is more than Ill ever need, but if I gotta replace whats in there then Im going with something that is more economical and will be easier to find parts for today and 5,10,20 years down the road. I dont do any towing and really only haul lumber, sheetrock, and loads of dirt. These are my reasons and they are not written in stone as I reserve the right to change my mind as I frequently do.

Anyways I got to tear into it a little today and have the intake manifold off and was about three bolts from having the heads off when it was time to coach my sixth grade BBall team. Headed back to take off the heads and have a look.

Quick Question- If its not the head or intake gasket then were did all this water in engine come from? Cracked Block? Im just guessing.

Thanks Guys,

Nick

 

Beemer is right. I did a simple electronic ignition and a well tuned carb and that old FE runs as good as or better than my 95 EFI. They are just one tough engine. Maybe this summer I will get the Gear Vendor installed and better my milage.
I keep hearing about these guys getting close to 20 MPG out of their FE's thats my goal.

Good luck and if you need help you have come to the right place.

jd

 

Nick,

My guess would be a failure of a gasket (head or intake). If you don't find an obvious gasket failure you can bolt the heads and intake back down with new gaskets and pressurize the radiator with a cooling system leak checker (cheap tools to do this are available) and see if the problem goes away (you can do this before re-installing the pushrods, carb, etc, to save some time). If it's still leaking then you'll need to go to plan B.

BTW -- I do tow a loaded car trailer with mine with the 5.0HO FI and AOD and it works pretty good.

Good Luck.

Bill

 

Nick,
FEs do not generally crack unless "lunched" from abuse, freezing or overheating way too much & someone adds cool water before blocks cool down. I've seen valves break & go thru cyl head/ combustion chamber or cylinder walls, and timing covers can leak from corosion/ damage. Especially if only water, not coolant has been run in engine.

Heads crack easier than engine blocks. Some other causes can be incorrect torque sequence/ procedure or other gasket related problem like incorrect gaskets, poor installation, use of adhesives etc where none should be, warps in the components like heads, intake manifold, timing cover, or blocks. There are probably other, more obscure causes but these above cover most of the common ones I can think of right now.

I will add this tho'. . . . keep looking until you discover the reason because if you never determine what caused it, you can not repair it. Then it most likely reoccur for the same reason all over again.

You are 100% right in your logic on moving up the scale. As much as I ran & loved my FE's I've moved on because parts are hard to find in good shape, or get at good prices and efficiencies are not in basic OEM designs [a product of mid 50's technology when waste & ineficiency didn't seem to matter much] Later model engines do much more/ get much more with less displacement, weight, cost, fuel consumption & so on.

That's how and why I moved away from FE's myself. Also I found FE power trains to be problematic & limited with older engine designs, sometimes engine mounts too. It's a personal aesthetic choice each of us must make ourselves. Only people I "DIS" over choice of engine/ power/ drive train, is someone who corrupts the "breed" with "Off Brand" set ups. But it's a whole different thing.

My point is more about performance, safety, convenience, comfort, economy
and so forth compared to 40/50 yr. old technology. I love the style & quality of older vehicles but I'm very leery about/ with older technology within them.

I Guess that's why my roots are based in Rodding or what is called "Street Rodding" today. I got my roots in rodding back in the 50's. Rodding's always been an upgrade, improvment oriented field. It fits me most comfortably & by far the best. Old vehicle + Newer, advanced, improved, technologies.

I respect everybodys' right to choose what's best suited for them & what they want to do with their "Toy". I don't respect people trying to argue or prove themselves right & rest of the world as wrong. Fortunately we don't have/ get many of those folks here at FTE & that's great. I've collided with people who want to argue elsewhere. I say to that, "Why Bother" ?

Just my $.02 on the subject,

FBp