Folks,

This site has been great to me- but I must admit, I am on the brink of clicking the "Log Out" button for the very last time.

This forum, the one that used to contain hands-down the most sensible and cooperative group of people on this site has fallen to pieces lately.

These petty arguments, name-calling, false accusations, flaming, and subtle smart-alek comments need to stop. It is KILLING what this forum has done best in the past- provide good technical information to newcomers and elder members alike.

The "technical" and "information" have left. I feel I may not be far behind, and I am sure I am not the only one to feel like this.

The childish drama is getting deeper in our community here than the underclassmen community in a high school.

 

I don't stop in here much anymore. Looks like I missed some BS.

 

PSD....
my $.0000002....
you're exactly right....
used to be first rate....
still best thing going...
but could be better....

With time, comes changes....
new people coming in and "old" people leaving...
so the tenor of things change, sometimes for the good, some not...

With anything...
if you ain't havin' fun, you tend to go where you do....
be it with a job, a friendship, etc...

The name of this forum is Ford Truck Enthusiasts...
maybe we need to have this forum renamed....
or another opened up...
I AGREE that some are having trouble with their trucks...
but the battles do get trying for us too...

I try to help when I can...

and yes, I am one of those that have an issue with the inflammatory statements that I know to be at best uninformed ...

Sometimes you have to protect what you like...
sometimes you DO have to respond or
the trouble will overrun you....

and it is NOT childish ! Nanny, Nanny, boo, boo

 

PSD...sometimes there is a fine line between childish behavior and passion.

We all have passions for different things but, some are very common to us all. Passion for our spiritual beliefs. Passion for our loved ones. Passion for our politics, and the list goes on.

Many have passion for what they expect. Many expect to get precieved value from their investment. In our case here, the passion involves their 6.0 Super Duty truck.

When people that feel their passion is being questioned or challenged they strike out.

In the case of owners with trucks from the dark side...they strike out by scattershooting into a crowd of believers because that is all their frustration allows them to do. General, unfounded statements are immediately challenged by those who know better. It is human nature.

In the case of those of us with the "good" trucks...we have to defend our egos. If "all 6.0s are horrible" then you and I and many, many, others obviously made a terribly expensive mistake by purchasing ours. I hate making mistakes. Therefore...the childs play begins.

PSD...you are a highly intelligent young man. Probably the most forward looking person of your age I have ever met and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you.

With that said, I must tell you though that you still have your life to live. The life experiences that lie ahead for you will provide you with more knowledge than you can ever imagine. A revelation for you...You may never change world...but you can keep the world from changing you.

Childish comments? Petty arguements? Subtle smart-alec comments (hmmmm)? Sure. Yes PSD , sometimes it is very childish.

Log out for the last time over childish drama? You know what? Life is to short. Do what is right for you. But, I can tell you that there is no statisfaction in surrender. Instead of walking away try to make it right.

You are right. It hasn't been to much fun lately but, it sure can be.

Your existance here is valuable. Your leaving would be quite noticeable. I have to say however, the fact that you posted this thread indicates to me that this is not in your heart.

BTW, sometimes chidlish behavior can be fun. Have you watched or played with a 5 year old lately? You should try it some time. It's fun.

 

I am siding with PSD, the post labeled "6.0 Terrible Engine" has been extremely childish! I mean good grief were supposed to be "ford Truck Enthusiasts" and almost every post under that has been nuthing but cuthroat childish crap that I would expect from my 5 y/o nephew................ Just simmer down guys, take it down a few notches.

 

I for one would not like you to leave. Your information has helped many a member. Yes, there are the flames. There are the idiots.. Yes, I said idiots. There's no stupid question, but I'd appreciate it if more people would read the owners manual before asking a question that's answered in that publication. If a person doesn't understand, then well, I guess asking is the best thing. But admit they don't understand. As for the heated discussions. Most of the time those are good. Because the difference in belief is a learning opportunity for the readers not involved. Soon the fact of the subject prevails. That's good for everyone. It's good to get knocked down a notch once in a while, and it's good to win once in a while. That's life.

We all don't communicate the same way. Either face to face, or in typed print. Often people know what they want to say, and would do fine speaking, but have difficulty with the written word. Quite often it's from typing skills, or written gramatical education. I try to keep this in mind when communicating with people I don't know on the net.

Hang in there, Your technical expertise has not gone unnoticed.

I side with you though, there are too many childish gone- wild threads. Some people need to lighten up.

 

Well said, PSD.

I'm a relative newcomer to FTE and I mostly just read this forum when I have questions or need info on how to care for my truck. The recent tranny recall and an EGR issue had me back in here looking for answers and info. It's not as enjoyable when you have to wade through an excessive amount of side squabbling and personal sniping to get at the info.

Maybe fuel prices are making people edgy and short-tempered. Or maybe the freshness of the 6.0L has finally worn off. I don't really know. But I agree with jackofalltrades; I'd also hate to see this forum lose your input. If you do quit posting, I would like to ask that you check back in a few months and see what you find. Maybe things will get better.

 

So how do we change it back to "good" lets not wait for a few months to pass lets be proactive and make it happen.
Give me real and credible ideas of how to do that.
Without saying some must go!

 

Perfectly correct attitude Tim !
Atta boy's to you for addressing it directly !

And we are just discussing possibilities here... no lectures from me... just some scatter shooting

always said to my live in sweetie
even if there's really NOT an issue,
but one of us "perceives" an issue,
then we really DO have an issue to work out
and it should be discussed !

******************************

How to fix it ? hard to say Tim,
I think it changed when people came on here
and started in on the attack mode...
mainly with outlandish claims that couldn't or weren't "valid" in some of our eyes...
sometimes you CAN'T ignore it,
but responding changes the tone of the forum....

I acknowledge these FACTS:
that there are some bad trucks...
that there are some bad dealers...
that there are some yet to be trained techs...
and like in life, that there are some bad techs....
and some management at some companies are a product of their times and care only about "right now" and could care less what happens in the future... if the ship sinks, they have their golden parachute and just move on....

but I also acknowledge
that there are those that come into a place and
knowing a full frontal attack will make for solidarity
and a stronger group response,
are more insidious and create strife within by taking a position to pit one against each other...

Our America has been under such an attack for 30 years...
I'll leave it at that for another discussion

that there are those that wouldn't be happy with a perfectly running GT40 if they were given it for free....

As with any tough question, it will take some thought and planning to come up with the correct resolution !

I too visit other boards, and even those without the name enthusiasts in it... (like owners clubs) strongly limit the attacks, both the personal and "vehicular"....

If I say bad things about your mother or your daughter to you, what kind of response do you expect
granted, these are just our trucks that we gravitated to, just like this "club" we gravitated to... by choice, and therefore take a feeling of belonging or "ownership" to it and want to improve/protect our investment of time and energy...

I also think this is a reflection of where our world is going to...
where lawyers rule and define law instead of right and wrong defining law... (but yet another subject )

I HOPE it can be straightened out...
but even with the Bibles exact predictions of Armageddon....
some are still running headlong right at it !!!
Dang - ANOTHER subject !!!

Conference calls all day, so gotta get ready for them...

Bye !

 

Maybe we should give the newcomers the benefit of the doubt before picking on them.
Before we say discouraging comments like" fish on", troll!, and the like, maybe we should ask the person for his Vin #. This usually happens about 10 neg. comments later. maybe a moderator should request this.
Alot of people are newcomers, and when they have a problem with their trucks they post when they are mad, or frustrated and it comes out on their opening comments.
All i'm asking is that maybe we should give them a break intially, and then if they dont back up their claims. FLAME away!

 

Agreed Hardware...
but also maybe they could give us a break too

given the name of the forum... that is

 

I have to follow suit, I have only been a member for 3 months and have noticed a downward spiral with some of the content being posted here. I personally ignore all the negative, bashing and flaming, and continue on to find the information that I am looking for. Every now and then I stop to ask a silly question or read a topic that catches my eye. Sometimes you have to accept that there are people who like to start trouble, but this is going to happen where ever you decide to go.

Anyhow back on topic. Nearly every article I have read contains a well written post by PSD and others that contains good information. I hate to see a knowledgeable member leave, but I will remain because the amount of information that passes through here is overwhelming. This site is truely an asset to the SD owner!

 

Tim, the most orderly, courteous, and beneficial forums I've seen have all had one thing in common: they were ruled with an iron fist by no-nonsense moderators. On such forums, all flame war participants were promptly warned, and if they didn't comply they were booted, usually permanently, and the forum was informed of it and told why. Contentious threads were terminated, but not removed so as to be left for "instructional" purposes. Personal attacks simply were not tolerated at all. Most members on these forums had high regard for the moderators and knew exactly where the boundaries were.

Please don't read this as being critical of the moderators here. I know how hard it is to moderate forums and keep things on an even keel. All the FTE the moderators have my full respect, with a bit of sympathy thrown in (I wouldn't have the job if you paid me). Personally, I am not as bothered by the situation as PSD is, but then I haven't contributed the massive quantity of information that he has to this forum, either. I'm also not sure that more aggressive moderation is the solution for this particular forum. It sure doesn't seem to fit the easy-going, good-natured Tim Lamkin style that I've come to know.

In general, though, a forum's rules and boundaries have to be clear to all members, and adhered to by all members. The only people who can really enforce these rules and boundaries are the moderators. Just my 2 cents.

 

Tim,
I would have to agree with Moebdick, it is time for the mods to step in as best they can and bring down the curtain on childish behavior and dog piling. I have been guilty of this at the start (as you well know) but now try to not say anything if it could be at all determined to be petty or childish after being spanked by you.

Yes, the mods opinions are subjective but you are the ones charged with keeping order in chaos (a thankless job to be sure) and a few tossings will unfortunately have to happen before the mess is good again. If you discipline someone and they disagree they can PM you to sort it out but in the end y'all are the final authority!

Matt,
Give this some time to work out now that the issue is on the front burner, your info has helped many and made my day brighter on several occasions! Worst case, pick and choose what you want to respond to and ignore the rest.....

 

I agree in principle with hardware with this exception.

Maybe we should give the newcomers the benefit of the doubt before picking on them.

If you were to read thru the history of the 6.0 forum I think you would find that we do typically give the benefit of the doubt.

As I have mentioned before, the childish drama is usually preceded by blanket disparaging, unfounded comments, which either directly or indirectly attacks those that also made huge investments in their good 6.0 trucks.

Global comments bashing our investments have always been challenged. Right or wrong, it is the nature of the beast.

In order to even own one of these puppies most folks have to be somewhat successful in what they do. Successful people are typically proud of what they accomplish in life and become somewhat defensive when there is a perceived threat to their decision making process. Hence...the drama unfolds.

With that said, I have to agree that name calling only adds fuel to the fire. I cannot say this as a fact (due to short / long term memory losses ) but, I don't think that I have ever challenged anyone's sense of being. Opinions yes. Intent to bash, yes. Attacking someone here that I respect...double affirmative.

So, where do we go from here?

• We could ignore all posts that begin with negative outbursts.
• Not challenge purposeful disinformation (again ignore the poster)
• Since I am very guilty of defending my perception of the forum's integrity, I can bow out. As this, I am sure would please many, I am not inclined to do so.
• We can just let the naysayers vent...then attempt to discover if they are seeking assistance. (I have tried this approach recently, not sure if it comesacrosss as positive by the original poster)

In any case I hope PSD and others stick around. I still have much to learn.