How big a Mig needed for frame?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 13
From: Kincardine, ON
How big a Mig needed for frame?
I'll first explain what I'm doing. My '77 frame has taken the abuse of salt and general life in Ontario. I found a SWB 4X4 frame in good shape (not show truck but very nice driver). Since I'm not in a rush I thought I would really clean it up and at the same time fill in all the blasted holes. I have not welded since high school (oh, so long ago) but have a certified welder friend who could get me started again. Since this would be it's only real use could you give me an idea of the size of welder I should keep an eye out for. I'll buy it either new or used depending on how much power you think I need. This is for just welded in the patches for cosmetic reasons, not actual structural, that I would rely on a professional. Thanks folks.
John.
John.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2004
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You could do the job with a LARGE 110v unit (130amp minimum) but I would go with a 220 machine. I'm not sure I would trust a patch job on a frame. if I understand you right you have holes in the side of the frame rail? I have stretched large trucks by adding frame & fishplating, but never repaired rust through. you may be time and money ahead by replacing frame sections. Greg
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 13
From: Kincardine, ON
I didn't state myself clearly. The holes I want to fill are the normal ones found in every frame. I thought since I have a frame alone to work with I could spend some extra time to fill in all the normal little holes you see so I get that nice smooth look.
John.
John.
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
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From: NE Texas
You would be money ahead getting a stick welder for such work. A MIG welder is quite expensive and much more expensive to operate. You can get a good stick welder for less than $300. If you insist on using a MIG for this job, you really need a 210 Amp MIG welder which are in the $1000 range. I personally wouldn't dream of trying this with a 110 volt MIG welder.
The absolute smallest MIG I would attempt such work with would be a 175 or 180 Amp unit which runs on 220Volts.
Good luck,
Doc
The absolute smallest MIG I would attempt such work with would be a 175 or 180 Amp unit which runs on 220Volts.
Good luck,
Doc
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
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From: Canada
If its only cosmetic work, I don't see why a 110V welder won't work. I have a lincoln 135 and it welds 1/4; even 3/8 depending on prep and skill. You won't need to get penetration right through the metal if your just welding in little patches to make it LOOK good. Personally I wouldn't be messing with the holes because they must be there for a reason, but I would say if you are only trying to make it look good and not doing actual frame repair a 110V (130 amp) welder should work fine.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2004
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For what you are doing , a 110v unit should work fine. a trick is to use a brass/bronze block on one side of the hole to "hold" the molton metal as you fill in the hole rather than build up form the side of the hole. Greg
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Seattle
The 110V units will be fine. If you've got the extra cash, get the MIG. If you got a little more, go 220V. With that being said, the 110V Stick will suffice.
Additionally, you wouldn't have to completely fill your holes anyway. Tack a steel washer in there and weld'r in. Done deal!
Additionally, you wouldn't have to completely fill your holes anyway. Tack a steel washer in there and weld'r in. Done deal!
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Lead Driver
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,303
Likes: 48
From: Lyndonville, Vermont
I agree with most of the guys. Don't need a 220 welder .If I were to buy a welder for this job I would probably want to weld something in the future. The problem with the 120v jobs is the duty cycle. They get hot and shut down.I would get the low end 220 volt and you won't have to upgrade..Fabricating is fun try not to buy something that you'll want to replace cause its too small. I'm glad I bought my big mig machine but now that I think of it I had a little toy years ago that I sold.
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Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
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I hope your buddy has had experience welding on automotive frames. We will just assume that he will teach you about heat affected zones and cracking... When you plug weld something like that you can get a stress induced hole that is larger than you started with. Frames are also heat treated steel and welding on them weakens them.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,303
Likes: 48
From: Lyndonville, Vermont
I agree with you Eric but I was working on my super duty frame last year and with all my experience 30 y I would swear that it was not hardened at all. The way it grinded and bent and took a center punch and drilled just seemed like reg buy off the shelf stuff. Acually I thought it was quite soft. The top of the C was bent down I took my big 20 inch adj wrench and I thought I was going to have to give it a fight but it was like butter..I think my toyota was harder.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
Ford truck frames are nothing special, the steel is called High Stength Steel (HSS), it's an easily workable steel with a 70,000psi tensile strength. There is no welding pre-heat requirment, or interpass maximum temperature. I work with this stuff all day, as long as you don't get it absolutely glowing, you are ok. As far as a backing for filling the holes, I use ceramics backing strips made specifically for this. It takes a little talent to keep the weld going, but makes a much nicer weld than graphite or brass. You still should grind the backside a bit, and put a cover weld over it, but you don't have to grind anywhere near as deep as with anything else. You could also tack a small piece of 1/8" steel behind the hole and just fill the hole in, leaving the plate there.
As for your actual question, any mig can do the job. I use an old Snap-on mig, it's actually a very potent little machine, and I have yet to trip the duty cycle on it. You won't always be welding at the maximum setting, so your duty cycle will be longer than the rating.
As for your actual question, any mig can do the job. I use an old Snap-on mig, it's actually a very potent little machine, and I have yet to trip the duty cycle on it. You won't always be welding at the maximum setting, so your duty cycle will be longer than the rating.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 13
From: Kincardine, ON
My thanks for everyones input. I have a much better idea on what to look for in a machine. The welder who will oversee my practice pieces has been checked out on a variety of materials, working at a nuke provides a good base for quality assurance. Once I get things together (and it gets warmer!!!) I'll post a couple pics of my progress. Thanks once again for all the help.
John.
John.
Junior User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 68
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From: Anderson, CA
As stated the older ford frames are constructed of HSS (High strength steel), new frames utilize HSLA (High strength, low alloy) steel which requires more caution when welding due the heat affecting the structural integrity of the metal. You can get away with heating HSS frame cherry red, but doing to th HSLA will severly weaken it's structural integrity. I would not be afraid to weld the holes up at all in your 77 frame. But on the newer frames all the holes, bends, etc serve a predetermined purpose, generally so the frame reacts a certain way in the advent of a collision. You weld the holes up or reinforce a newer frame you the energy derived from a collision may not be routed AROUND the occupants but directed at them. Crazy stuff.
Jay
Jay
