Since I'm not a diesel guy and my father-in-law isn't a computer guy, I'm asking this question for him. The vehicle in question is a 1997 F250 Ext Cab 4x4 Automatic with just over 100,000 miles on it. Typical load is a 20' or so Alpenlite 5th wheel (4000 lbs or so). My father-in-law says that he's losing some power over the way the truck used to perform and the mileage is down a little. He's thinking about getting a chip for the truck and I'm not sure that is the path to go. He's had the exhaust checked and has no back pressure so the cat and muffler are clear. He doesn't want to spend the $4k for a Six Gun system or similar but is looking for a fairly inexpensive modification to get more power and some mileage back. Last trip he took empty he got 17 mpg at 70mph or so and used to get 19 or so.

I know if he goes too wild, he will need full gauges and I really think a tuner with the built in gauges is the way to go. Then, if he doesn't like it he can just pull it out and be back to stock and if he goes with a chip he's stuck with it (expecially if he gets his old one reprogrammed for a little more HP).

If you had a budget of $400 or so, what would you recommend? Money isn't an issue, but he just doesn't want to spend much on the truck as it would take a lot of use to recoup (oh wait, do we ever recoup the cost of mods we do). Anyway, that is his thought process.

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks

 

If I had only 400 to spend it would go towards straight exhaust and a better intake. If you do the Napa Filter and a good 4" straight exhaust you might have enough money left over for 1\2 a tank of diesel..

 

I second that. Only after these mods, if he is not happy, then gauges and a chip. I definitely would not run a chip or tuner without gauges 1st since he tows. The exhaust and intake will enhance the chip further.

 

Before you decide to mod the truck, you need to find out why the truck is losing power and milage. Now it may just be the fuel causing this and nothing more. Winter blend will drop your milage down and cause a slight loss of power (not as many BTU's as straight #2 diesel). 19 MPG on an auto 4x4 is outstanding milage for that truck, and 17 mpg is still great for winter months. So he might not actually have a real problem with the truck. However if the two of you think that there might be something wrong, get it fixed before you mod anything.

Now, about the mods. There are no tuners or programmers available for the 97's that have built in gauges. The Edge Attitude monitor and the Banks 6-Gun are both for 99's and up. Just about everyone here will tell you that if you want more power, you need to get the base set up first. This means upgrading the intake, exhaust, and adding a set of gauges to monitor everything. Just doing those 3 things will go past your $400 budget and that's still without a chip or tuner. If you really want a bit more power and want to stay under budget, then I've seen trucks with a mild chip or a programmer set to the tow setting and they run all day long without gauges or any other modifications. As far as exhaust temps go, I'm sure they are probably close to max but still in the safe zone. My Grandfather has done this to his 2001. He bought a Hypertech programmer right after purchasing his truck, put it on the lower tow setting and drives it daily with no problems. It helped his milage as he is getting insanely high fuel milage, of course he drives like an old man and has a 6-speed as well.

Another very cheap power adder would be the 10K mod (aka ICP mod). There are variations to this as it can be done yourself for under a dollar, or you can get the commercial 18K mod which is fully adjustable and activated by a throttle switch to keep your idle smooth when sitting at a light. There is a website that I can't find right now where someone did the 10k mod and tested the exhaust temps and found that everything stayed well within the safe zone. Kwik will probably chim in and tell you how much he likes his 10K mod.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks guys. I was thinking about the Edge Evolution for the tuner as it monitors EGT and Boost and is for a 94 and up, but you all make good points.

First, I agree with the mileage issue (see truck in signature and the only way I get 17mpg is downhill in nuetral). He's had the truck at the dealer a few times and they can't find any codes, injector issues, anything. He did have a injection pump replaced because the old one blew the end out in Muleshoe TX or somewhere around there. Is it possible the injector pump could be the issue? The symptoms seem to kind of coincide with the replacement. I have him running a diesel additive quite frequently (I can't remember the brand, but it was one highly recommended on this board). I'm not real informed with diesels, as I said. Just the fact they don't have spark plugs kind of gets me. But, as with gas engines, if you can improve the breathing you can improve the power. I'll see if I can talk him into a straight exhaust or at least a good 4" kit (he's 69 and doesn't want a loud truck). Heck, I want to try a 4" kit on my 1990 460 for fun.

Any other suggestions are welcome. The more information I can present to him as to what to do, the better. The performance shops around here just want money and will either sell him too much or not enough (i.e. as you all said, no chip until it breathes better). I did find a website called bigexhaust.com that has 4" pipe and mufflers at a good price and I can fabricate the exhaust.

I guess another question is does the down pipe need to be increased at this time or is it fine as it is?

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

Two cheap modifications that I have seen on here has been the kwik air filter modification with a NAPA #6637 air filter and then a Walker BTM (Big Truck Muffler) NAPA #21470. Cheap mods with good results. Then look at the programmer.

 

Yep, if you have the stock downpipe, I would replace that before you work on the exhaust. Also i have to agree that you should start with intake and exhaust. Any mods you do after that will only be complimented by those two. Next would be a nice set of gauges, or if Edge does make their setup for your truck...

Now since you are modifying a stock auto tranny truck, you want to be very careful. These tranny's don't hold up long once you start to add power (especially pulling). BTS (Brian's Truck Shop) in arkansas makes a bullet proof auto tranny and backs them up. our club (Colorado Power Stroke Club) has a handful of his tranny's and not one failure. Even in a drag truck running in the low 14's.

Have fun!

J.D.

 

There have been some very good suggestions so far but I would also consider any possible sources of drag or power loss. The E4OD tranny's on these trucks are not known for outstanding reliability. I gained about 4 MPG when I finally changed out mine. The power may still be there but it might not be getting to the wheels. Brakes and bearings should also be checked out, as well as differentials and t-case. Most likely (hopefully) it is just the fuel blend for winter. My mileage has dropped from about 19 to about 17 (best case driving) and I think my truck is almost identical to what you described. I am sure that my drop is due to fuel type. A good additive can help a little bit. I like dieselkleen.

 

I would not worry about the straight pipe being too loud. The diesel engine does not compare to a gasser when it comes to the sound of straight pipe or no muffler. They just aren’t loud when this is done. When I installed my 4" turbo back exhaust, I started my truck just to see loud it was with just the down pipe and the 1st section on it. To me it was not loud at all. If you do the exhaust yourself, you can install half of it and see how loud it would be.
Just a thought

 

Sorry, but the evolution, even with their newest upgrades, doesn't monitor EGTs or boost. It will somewhat monitor your EOT and tranny fluid temp(not really sure of the accuracy). The only setup Edge has that will monitor EGTs and boost is the Attitude monitor. But, like said before it is only for the 99s up. On my truck (97F250HD 4x4) with my evolution set on tow and with only a diy intake (stock exhaust) I can get my EGTs over well over 1000* up a decent hill (6-8%) at around 80mph unloaded. So I would be careful pulling even on their tow safe mode without gauges.
Like everyone else said your best bet would be to get the gauges, intake, and exhaust first and then go with a tuner or chip.
Good luck

 

Thanks, guys. I was just using what Motorhaven list as the specs on the Edge Evolution. I think all the points are accurate from what I have seen, maybe now I can convince my father-in-law to upgrade the intake and exhaust.

Thanks

 

Hey MRBASS, do you know any of the Mills around Lake Fork? We (my father-in-law and I) will be out there the week after Easter working on some land that he has on the west side of Lake Fork. Anyway, if you would be interested in talking some truck and mayeb helping me convince the proper mods to make, send me a message or email so that we don't tie up the board space.

Thanks

 

jb
if you do the exhaust (down pipe the most important component) and air intake mods you can run a tow safe tuner program or chip pretty safely without having the gauges because they make fairly modest and very effective changes. I ran a towsafe tuner pgm for 3 years with gauges in place, I had absolutely no problem with EGT and I tow a 34 foot fiver. DO NOT choose a performance pgm without gauges I experimented one time and found EGTs rise much faster with the performance pgm and I didnt want to have to worry about it so I reinstalled the towsafe pgm. I currently have a Diablo flip chip that allows me to change pgms on the fly. While cruising at 70 (no load) my EGT changes 100 degrees by going from tow to performance or vice versa.
One other very inexpensive mod you can do is shim the Fuel Pressure Regulator. A spring in the FPR weakens with time and allows the fuel pressure to fall out of the optimum range shimming brings it back where it belongs. Price to do this is the cost of a single BB.