Summoning the electricity gurus, PW wiring issue.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Summoning the electricity gurus, PW wiring issue.
OK, I'll try to be concise, speak up if you need more info. Here's the deal. My wiring is 99% complete but have a few minor issues. I am using Electraglide II Power windows. The original switches didn't fit the bezels. Long story short, I am using 5 pin switches. They function perfectly, but.......... the lighted switches are always on. The switches have only one wire coming in that is hot. It comes off the fuse panel and circuit uses a 30A circuit breaker. Always hot because it is designed to be the circuit for seats, windows. This would work if the switches used a separate power lead for light, like the instructions say, but that isn't how it is. And I;d like to keep it on this circuit. Wire GA is correct, and I like the CB for PW as it won;t blow like a fuse.
How can I make this work? I am thinking break the power feed with a bosch relay. Trigger the relay off the ignition switch so the PW feed wire is hot in the IGN SW run and ACC position? I could live with that, at least the SW lights would be off when IGN key is off. Any other ideas? Other than yell at the vendor. It's too late for that. They would just send a switch that doesn't fit the holes in my finished interior.
How can I make this work? I am thinking break the power feed with a bosch relay. Trigger the relay off the ignition switch so the PW feed wire is hot in the IGN SW run and ACC position? I could live with that, at least the SW lights would be off when IGN key is off. Any other ideas? Other than yell at the vendor. It's too late for that. They would just send a switch that doesn't fit the holes in my finished interior.
Last edited by fatfenders; Mar 15, 2005 at 07:41 PM.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 2
From: Seattle WA.
I wonder how much current those lights draw, may not be an issue if you use a battery kill switch when the truck is stored for weeks at a time. The ignition switch route seems the only other way to go, other than putting a kill switch on the power wire when its setting.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,730
Likes: 13
From: Waynesville, OH
Dewayne,
You said five-pin switches. OK:
- Power feed
- Ground
- Motor up
- Motor down
- ????
What's the fifth pin for? I'd love to see which pins are connected to which others with the switch in all three positions. Can you manage that? Something like this:
Switch in Window Down Postion
1 - NC
2 - 3, 4
3 - 2, 4
4 - 2, 3
5 - NC
Switch in Neutral Postion
1 - NC
2 - NC
3 - 5
4 - NC
5 - 3
Switch in Window Up Postion
1 - 4
2 - NC
3 - 5
4 - 1
5 - 3
Get our your digital VM and check that continuity while someone (Carol, Ashton?) holds the switch in the desired position.
You said five-pin switches. OK:
- Power feed
- Ground
- Motor up
- Motor down
- ????
What's the fifth pin for? I'd love to see which pins are connected to which others with the switch in all three positions. Can you manage that? Something like this:
Switch in Window Down Postion
1 - NC
2 - 3, 4
3 - 2, 4
4 - 2, 3
5 - NC
Switch in Neutral Postion
1 - NC
2 - NC
3 - 5
4 - NC
5 - 3
Switch in Window Up Postion
1 - 4
2 - NC
3 - 5
4 - 1
5 - 3
Get our your digital VM and check that continuity while someone (Carol, Ashton?) holds the switch in the desired position.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Rod
They draw enough power to make me address the problem.
George
I went through the VOM drill a couple years ago to make them work. I'll do it again if you think I can rewire and correct it. This whole deal is typical rodder part. Stevie Wonder wrote the schematics. None of the colors in the instructions match the actual product. I'll describe wiring for Switch #1 just to give you an idea. SW1 would be the drivers switch. Main power comes in to SW #1 and jumpers to the rest. The motors have 2 wires. I can reverse them and the they work backwards of course since we're DC. Pin #1 and #5 go to motor. #3 is 12VDC. 2 and 4 are ground. #3 of course has to jumper to the other two switches.
Think of any way else this circuit could work? Several years ago I decided the only way to make the lights go off would be to do something funny with the ground. I am certain I am only applying main power to #3 pin.
I have another option. The HVAC circuit is basically unused because I only have a heater blower motor on it for the foreseeable future. It is switched hot circuit so this is an option. It is also a 12GA circuit. I can put the CB in there. It has a 30A fuse now.
They draw enough power to make me address the problem.
George
I went through the VOM drill a couple years ago to make them work. I'll do it again if you think I can rewire and correct it. This whole deal is typical rodder part. Stevie Wonder wrote the schematics. None of the colors in the instructions match the actual product. I'll describe wiring for Switch #1 just to give you an idea. SW1 would be the drivers switch. Main power comes in to SW #1 and jumpers to the rest. The motors have 2 wires. I can reverse them and the they work backwards of course since we're DC. Pin #1 and #5 go to motor. #3 is 12VDC. 2 and 4 are ground. #3 of course has to jumper to the other two switches.
Think of any way else this circuit could work? Several years ago I decided the only way to make the lights go off would be to do something funny with the ground. I am certain I am only applying main power to #3 pin.
I have another option. The HVAC circuit is basically unused because I only have a heater blower motor on it for the foreseeable future. It is switched hot circuit so this is an option. It is also a 12GA circuit. I can put the CB in there. It has a 30A fuse now.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,730
Likes: 13
From: Waynesville, OH
Yup, with the extra pin being a second ground it sounds like you're screwed. You MIGHT be able to make it work by taking the switch apart and messing with separating the two ground pins, but you'd have to figger out the contact arrangement. Probably a lot easier to put in the relay as you originally suggested. Being a forward thinking guy, I suspect that would be a better option than using up the HVAC circuit when you KNOW you'll want to add A/C in the future. Don't scrimp now, you're on the home stretch. 
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,497
Likes: 5
From: Tucson AZ
this all sounds like a lot of work to end up with a doctored ckt, just how difficult would it be to just remake the mounting plate and change out the switches? Watsons make some real nice panels with your # of switches. A talented guy like yourself should be able to whip this right out.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,682
Likes: 12
From: Saskatoon SK Canada
Isn't Blueovalrage the electrical guru? He helped you on you wiper motor. Too bad he hasn't been around lately. I think the relay would work as that is how I have my electric fan and fuel pump are wired.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,005
Likes: 2
From: Santa Clarita
I have the 5 prong switches on my windows. Two top, two middle and one bottom. The two top are: Red wire hot is in the middle (coming from the the fuse box) Next to it, is the black (ground). In the middle is a green and yellow wire which go to the power window motor, one up and one down. Then the bottom terminal is a jumper from the power terminal at the top. I used a splice to connect a small power wire to the bottom terminal. I tried it without the power wire on the bottom and the window only went down, but not up. Hope this helps.
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Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by fatfenders56
this all sounds like a lot of work to end up with a doctored ckt, just how difficult would it be to just remake the mounting plate and change out the switches? Watsons make some real nice panels with your # of switches. A talented guy like yourself should be able to whip this right out.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by 57_ford
Is the ground in the switch only for the light? If so you can run the ground throu a relay and the relay is triggered by the eather the head light switch or the acc on the ign switch.
Tim
Sorry if I sounded unappreciative of your suggestion. Everytime I buy a new rodder part, a certain amount of grief comes with it. The switches are installed nicely, and I just want the interior work to be over.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: South Central MN
heres an idea, Dewayne, do like im going to and not be LAZY and crank up or down the windows 
...hahaha...lot less of a wiring headache, ill have enough of that tryin to get all the wires hooked back up on mine....gotta love those EFI cars with ALLLL the options....
...hahaha...lot less of a wiring headache, ill have enough of that tryin to get all the wires hooked back up on mine....gotta love those EFI cars with ALLLL the options....
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,497
Likes: 5
From: Tucson AZ
there was no offense taken, things that we discuss here are not of that magnitude, didn't mean to imply otherwise. Over the past 30 years (man, that's a long time) I have developed a policy of not adding 1 part or component that isn't necessary to do the job, I hate having to remember or figure out a work-around 2 years later in the dark, on the side of the road, 400 miles from home, with no tools, in the rain etc etc hence the KISS standard. If your interior is done don't screw with it. HEY, I know, put a toggle switch in the middle of the door panel that you could throw to supply battery to the window switches, I'm sure that George has a 50 year old schematic somewhere. HA HA (Just a joke!) although George probably DOES have a 50 old schematic.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by 57_ford
Is the ground in the switch only for the light? If so you can run the ground throu a relay and the relay is triggered by the eather the head light switch or the acc on the ign switch.