Ever notice how when you look at a "max" hp or torque rating it is usually at some unrealistic rpm? For example, since this is Ford site, I'll cite an example of a Ford number

2005 Ford Expedtion 5.4l, 300hp @ 5000 rpm
365 flbs @ 3750 rpm

None of the expeditions I owned would hardly turn 5k. Plus when you are towing a trailer, you need the torque down low usually, not at nearly 4k

Remember the days when the manufacturers would supply a bell curve so you could actually compare the "usuable" hp and torque numbers at an equivalent rpms right in the brochure?

Only reason I can see is because much of today's buying group doesn't understand how torque and HP actually affect driveability depending on the rpm range in which they are generated. They seem to be more infactuated with the "peak" number than the usuable number.

I'd much rather know the truck (or whatever vehicle) generates 352 ftlbs of torque at 2000rpm than to know that I can get an extra 12 ftlbs by reving the engine to 3750. (hypothetical)

Just my 2 cents. Does anyone else feel this way or have a differing opinion. I'm not trying to stir up things, just miss good solid debates, which seem to be diminishing on the boards lately.

 

I don't know TKD. Have HP numbers just become a marketing ploy? I wan't a car that makes 300hp at 5000, and 400 at 6000

David

 

The 5.4 makes over 80% of it's torque below 2000 rpms. If you need more buy a diesel.

 

TKD...
understand EXACTLY what you are saying...
and YES, HP is most certainly a marketing ploy !!!

isn't everything now ?

"More is betta"

And some have even gone to the extreme of redefining tersm to suit THEIR position....
used to there was one term to measure a "standard"
now there's max hp, peak hp, peak hp gain... etc... etc...


Did it start with "I didn't have "relations" with Monica"
or is that just another example of the spin

 

Pfogle,

I understand what you are saying. My intention was not that more torque was needed, but the fact that car companies are "masking" some important info on how and where horsepower and torque are produced.

It's great that the Expedtion makes 80% of it's torque at a low rpm and that is what I call "usable" info. Unfortunately, the manufacturers don't necessarily make that info readily available.

 

I don't think they are masking it as they do say what RPM's they are making the power at, I think they are just playing the card the most people don't know enough about cars to realize they will never get the full potential of the vehicle as they can't run them at that RPM.

 

Sad but true Couleeman, sad but true.

When did we become a nation of blind thinkers that takes what is told to us for granted

Wait, I know that answer. *sigh*

 

a lot of people think that that HP is produced full time and ignore the RPM at which this HP is produced at, I bet if you were to go ask some random person on the street what the RPM with the HP rating means, and 9 times out of 10 i bet they say it's not important. Our society is learning less about these things and diving deeper into the lives of other people, or are busy complaining about how bad they have it. Car companies will take advantage of this and say, oooo, hey, we can say it makes the top HP at this RPM range, and the general public won't have a clue what we are talking about. All these commercials on TV that say, oo, the new whatever produces 300 HP, attracts the public, gets them out to the lot, they look at the car, not the sticker(other than for the price) and thats that, another car sold. but the people that know what it's about see the unrealistic rpm range accompanying it and are like, hmmmm, what are the chances that you will run that RPM range and get that HP, what would you need that HP for anyway, I mean, you redline the car, what is more power going to do for you there, blow the motor? Why would you wanna do that. Car companies take advantage of ignorance, and our society is full of ignorant people.

 

Unless I am BADLY mistaken, Ford's TV commercials sell the fact that a majority percentage of the 5.4 motor's torque is available at low (2000) rpm. I remember that being specifically mentioned.
But also, GM and Dodge do a good job of marketing the towing / pulling / hauling / grunt work capabilities of their respective trucks. The OEM's know that not everybody who buys a truck or full size SUV is not going to be towing a boat, pulling a cattle trailer or hauling a load of steel, but such demonstrations are impressive and do sell their trucks to those who might not know or understand WHY one truck does one thing better than another. But, they (the buyer) might accept the fact and think "Wow, that looks impressive. That's what I want!

I think a lot of the marketing is to a moderatley educated public at best, and to an ignorant public (where simply more is better) at worst.

We must remember that marketing $$ is spent where surveys and research show it gets the most return on investment. Ergo - the ads we see.

I guess Ford and GM and Dodge, etc. figure that the additional specific details (torque curves, HP curves, etc) are available for those of us who want to know. Supplying such additional technical data to the public at large would be wasted advertising $$.

But that just my $.02.

 

I agree Brian. Ford does clearly state in their adds that 80% of torque is available at 1800rpm if I remember correctly. But even car guys base their assessment of power on max hp and torque, regardless of where its made.

Trevor

 

the only other way to measure hp would be by the 1/4 mile and then for a truck to tow a trailer at say 10k pounds or some fare common weight. the faster one will be the better one for towing unless i am all wet here? also it takes into account the weight of the vehicle ... which most ford truck owners would not like because fords are heavier so the 300hp motor in their truck won't stand a chance at a 300hp motor in a chevy/ dodge which are bith generally lighter.

 

Car companies are just appealing to the consumer. Think about it. One of the majority groups of truck/SUV buyers are soccer moms and suburban families who have no intention of towing anything, but just want to go fast in their huge truck. That's why Ford got rid of the 300 six.

 

When I'm towing and encounter a hill, I mash the go pedal and my rpms jump. TQ gets the load moving but HP keeps it moving. I've run up plenty of hills at 4500rpms. Matter of fact my V10 loves 3000 rpms plus.