Ethanol fueled 360
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 8
From: Union, Washington
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
My point exactly. I'd be setting up my own ethanol fuel still, and the economics of it come out to about $1.00 / gallon if I can sell some of the other byproducts.
For startup, I'd probably run dual tanks and start it up on gasoline. I figure a stone cold engine wont ping. Once it's been running for a minute or so I'd switch it over to ethanol. Sound good?
In addition, it sounds like the ethanol fueled 360 may become a reality this year. I heard on the news today talk of $100 / barrel oil, so the economics of this may become clear sooner rather than later.
The question becomes, what do I put it in? I was thinking a Ford Ranger. Ideas?
For startup, I'd probably run dual tanks and start it up on gasoline. I figure a stone cold engine wont ping. Once it's been running for a minute or so I'd switch it over to ethanol. Sound good?
In addition, it sounds like the ethanol fueled 360 may become a reality this year. I heard on the news today talk of $100 / barrel oil, so the economics of this may become clear sooner rather than later.
The question becomes, what do I put it in? I was thinking a Ford Ranger. Ideas?
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 2
From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
All steel components of an original fuel system will rust when using ethanol. It will rust the gas tank, steel fuel tubing and corrode the carburetor. Not to mention it will rust the valves, rings and cylinders more so than condensation from just plain gasoline.
The way I understand to setup a vehicle for ethanol is to convert the fuel system to components that don't rust or corrode along with rubber hoses that don't react to ethanol.
The way I understand to setup a vehicle for ethanol is to convert the fuel system to components that don't rust or corrode along with rubber hoses that don't react to ethanol.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 422
Likes: 2
From: S.C. North Dakota
Pure Ford ,,, how the dickens do you figure ethanol will do all this harm? I have yet to see or read where ethanol will do all this damage . Maybe if someone was useing methanol which I would agree is corossive . Maybe if
someone here has tried E-85 fuel and could say what it done good or bad for them ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
someone here has tried E-85 fuel and could say what it done good or bad for them ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 24,552
Likes: 74
From: Creedmoor, North Carolina
Rusty, I was about to jump in here after reading down the post. I think the guys are confuzed about their alcohol.
Methanol; used in racing and school burners, is very corrosive and can cause damage to rubber in automotive systems.
Ethanol; "Good ol sipping whiskey" can be blended with gasoline to use as a fuel additive. Ehtanol unlike it's tv image has a lower BTU rating and will not burn hot enough to run most engines by itself. Distilling ethanol for fuel use is well documinted and not very costly to do. Be aware that it also is very closely watched, because the govment collects a very large amount of taxes on sipping whiskey and much less on motor fuel. They highly discourage you making and selling motor fuel in shot glasses. LOL
John
Methanol; used in racing and school burners, is very corrosive and can cause damage to rubber in automotive systems.
Ethanol; "Good ol sipping whiskey" can be blended with gasoline to use as a fuel additive. Ehtanol unlike it's tv image has a lower BTU rating and will not burn hot enough to run most engines by itself. Distilling ethanol for fuel use is well documinted and not very costly to do. Be aware that it also is very closely watched, because the govment collects a very large amount of taxes on sipping whiskey and much less on motor fuel. They highly discourage you making and selling motor fuel in shot glasses. LOL
John
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
"Why is your fuel mileage down this trip?"
"Well.. hic.. I jus found fuel this eh leak inta er uh cab and uh..."
No, I plan to keep it legal. Blend in something to make it poisonous, I'm thinking acetone right now. That way it'll help it vaporize too. Not that 200 proof isn't poisonous enough in it's own right. I'll look up the laws in Iowa concerning fuel alcohol. I think there's some sort of experimental thing to get around a lot of the taxes and stuff.
"Well.. hic.. I jus found fuel this eh leak inta er uh cab and uh..."
No, I plan to keep it legal. Blend in something to make it poisonous, I'm thinking acetone right now. That way it'll help it vaporize too. Not that 200 proof isn't poisonous enough in it's own right. I'll look up the laws in Iowa concerning fuel alcohol. I think there's some sort of experimental thing to get around a lot of the taxes and stuff.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 422
Likes: 2
From: S.C. North Dakota
BE careful with the acetone ,,, might work against rubber components . AN afterthought ,,, didnt they use distilled spirits back in the prohibition days when they tried to outlaw alcohol ,,,, must have been in the 1920's and 30's in their vehicles ? No wonder the Feds and Elliott Ness were busting the distillers . WE were maybe onto a new fuel source back then ,,,,,
Last edited by RustyTrustyF150; Mar 8, 2005 at 12:28 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 8
From: Union, Washington
Originally Posted by RustyTrustyF150
Pure Ford ,,, how the dickens do you figure ethanol will do all this harm? I have yet to see or read where ethanol will do all this damage . Maybe if someone was useing methanol which I would agree is corossive . Maybe if
someone here has tried E-85 fuel and could say what it done good or bad for them ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
someone here has tried E-85 fuel and could say what it done good or bad for them ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 8
From: Union, Washington
Originally Posted by jowilker
Rusty, I was about to jump in here after reading down the post. I think the guys are confuzed about their alcohol.
Methanol; used in racing and school burners, is very corrosive and can cause damage to rubber in automotive systems.
Ethanol; "Good ol sipping whiskey" can be blended with gasoline to use as a fuel additive. Ehtanol unlike it's tv image has a lower BTU rating and will not burn hot enough to run most engines by itself. Distilling ethanol for fuel use is well documinted and not very costly to do. Be aware that it also is very closely watched, because the govment collects a very large amount of taxes on sipping whiskey and much less on motor fuel. They highly discourage you making and selling motor fuel in shot glasses. LOL
John
Methanol; used in racing and school burners, is very corrosive and can cause damage to rubber in automotive systems.
Ethanol; "Good ol sipping whiskey" can be blended with gasoline to use as a fuel additive. Ehtanol unlike it's tv image has a lower BTU rating and will not burn hot enough to run most engines by itself. Distilling ethanol for fuel use is well documinted and not very costly to do. Be aware that it also is very closely watched, because the govment collects a very large amount of taxes on sipping whiskey and much less on motor fuel. They highly discourage you making and selling motor fuel in shot glasses. LOL
John
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 422
Likes: 2
From: S.C. North Dakota
Well bear ,,, this dude has been useing ethenol blended gasoline / gasohol ever since it came out on the market and if it said methanol on the fuel pump I went to another pump . Yes both alcohols will ABSORB to a degree moisture in the fuel system that is a reason why I use ethenol. Yea even gasoline will hold water but the water will sit there while in alcohol it gets absorbed . And this country doesn't have to buy ethenol from the arabs . 
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 8
From: Union, Washington
Originally Posted by RustyTrustyF150
Well bear ,,, this dude has been useing ethenol blended gasoline / gasohol ever since it came out on the market and if it said methanol on the fuel pump I went to another pump . Yes both alcohols will ABSORB to a degree moisture in the fuel system that is a reason why I use ethenol. Yea even gasoline will hold water but the water will sit there while in alcohol it gets absorbed . And this country doesn't have to buy ethenol from the arabs .
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
If I run the vehicle on a regular basis, I doubt water absorbsion would ever become a problem. I also thought methanol was quite a bit more corrosive than ethanol. And when I do this, I am planning to make my own ethanol fuel. I also plan on having a fuel system compatible with it, stainless hard fuel lines, fuel injection, etc.
Just dont tell me it cant be done. I take it as a challenge.
Just dont tell me it cant be done. I take it as a challenge.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
It CAN be done, and I'm eagerly waiting for the results!
I have day dreams of a hundred or two acres in the Catskills that I can make work for me, and not having to worry about the day when I can't get gas for my V10
Besides, I'll still have two 390's around that I can use as electric or mechanical generators How lean can you run with ethanol and a very low load? (as in, how to idle a generator without shutting it off) One of my 390's already has 11:1 compression, so it's almost good to go ...
I have day dreams of a hundred or two acres in the Catskills that I can make work for me, and not having to worry about the day when I can't get gas for my V10
Besides, I'll still have two 390's around that I can use as electric or mechanical generators
How lean can you run with ethanol and a very low load? (as in, how to idle a generator without shutting it off) One of my 390's already has 11:1 compression, so it's almost good to go ...
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Krewat, I think all you'd have to do to that 390 is stick in a really small cam, like the 343901, to allow it to build a lot of compression (high dynamic compression ratio). As per how lean it can run, I have no idea. I've heard you can run 'em quite lean, since it burns relatively cold. However, with the increased compression I dont know how much you could get away with.
On one site I looked up, I believe there was a link to it earlier in this thread, they say to set timing on an ethanol fueled engine you simply advance timing to where you get maximum power; it doesn't ping, you just lose power with too much advance. I'll see if I can dig up a link to where I read that.
Dont hold your breath on this one, it might be a while before I get the funds to build this thing! Those Ross custom pistons I'll need are quite expensive. Anyone know where I can get some cheaper custom pistons?
On one site I looked up, I believe there was a link to it earlier in this thread, they say to set timing on an ethanol fueled engine you simply advance timing to where you get maximum power; it doesn't ping, you just lose power with too much advance. I'll see if I can dig up a link to where I read that.
Dont hold your breath on this one, it might be a while before I get the funds to build this thing! Those Ross custom pistons I'll need are quite expensive. Anyone know where I can get some cheaper custom pistons?
