I had this idea a while back, and I posted it in the alternative fuels forum. But I think you guys might like to see it, so here goes:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=347719

Tell me what you think.

 

Great idea! It's really not all that hard... My machinist would regale me with stories of race motors he worked on (in the pits) running ethanol - just be careful

He always wondered why it wasn't used much as a fuel. The only problem is the clear flame, and I do believe there must be some way to color it or something, without putting TOO much crap back into such a clean fuel.

There are "flexible fuel" vehicles being produced today - have no idea what they are, but I'm sure if it was a Superduty V10, I'd buy one

These flexible fuel vehicles somehow figure out what fuel you put in it, and adjusts accordingly - probably by the old knock-sensor and advance-the-timing trick to figure out what the octane is.

It really shouldn't be too hard to find the stuff you need - just MUCH bigger jets, and gaskets/fuel-pump(electric?)/hoses that work with ethanol.

I believe A1 marine-grade fuel hose is alcohol resistant. B2 is not. ON EDIT: Not sure why, but I was told this by someone who sells the hose. Turns out, it might not be right, disregard this info ... SECOND EDIT: Any fuel hose that is marine SAEJ1527 (USCG) is "alcohol resistant" - not sure if that can be used with pure ethanol though.

 

Here is the response I posted in the other forum:

Gentlemen, please keep in mind that the air/fuel ratio for ethanol is about 9:1. This means that you use much more ethanol per horsepower, or per mile than gasoline. I would say a maximum of 8-9 mpg. Yes, you can get more power from an engine on ethanol, and even more from methanol (6.5:1 AFR), but you can't get better mileage per gallon.

-Scouder

 

I was reading this article a while back:

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id26.html

Here's a snip:

You may get about 10% less mileage as there is technically less energy in alcohol than gasoline. If you increased your compression and do everything to optimize your engine for alcohol, it will actually get better mileage and/or more power, as a higher octane (slower burning) fuel is more efficient.

Here's another link on fuel mileage:

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id12.html

 

Note that in both articles you provided they are talking about blended ethanol/gasoline mix. E-85. Your post didn't mention a gasoline mix, or at least I didn't notice a mention of it. I was under the impression this was an ethanol engine, and fuel mileage will suffer if that is the case.

-Scouder

 

The original poster didn't mention mileage, just the feasability of going to ethanol.

 

Here's a line from the original message:

"Anyone have any idea what kind of mileage it would get?"

The orginal message is titled:

"Ethanol mileage engine idea."

Gotcha!

-Scouder

 

Sorry Scouder, I've been talking to too many stuffed-shirts lately - anything you say, they believe you, and it gets addictive after a while Hazard of the job...

You're right, AFR for gas is what, 14.7? With 9 for ethanol, it'll certainly use more fuel for the same volume of air, but it sounds like with the right compression, etc, you might need much less air to begin with, making the mileage higher overall because you don't need to open the throttle as far. Assuming "more power" means more gases on burning, otherwise intake vacuum will overcome the additional power if it's too far different.

The thing I don't like with Ethanol as a "clean" fuel is it's still got carbon atoms in it, and that'll certainly make carbon dioxide (CO2), but also possibly carbon monoxide (CO) if the burn is not perfect (which it will never be). It does not have any sulfur or nitrogen, which is a big plus though.

art k.

 

THE thing i like about ethanol is it can be made in the USA and not bought
from some ARAB'S and our soldiers would not have to die on some foreign soil
fighting for another country ,,,,, AND besides the INDY 500 is going to be
powered with ethanol in 2006 or 07 from what I heard .

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like Ethanol much better than petroleum

No two ways about that. Environmentally, and national-security wise, it's a win-win.

Even E85 would make a HUGE dent in petro demand.

 

If you have ever stood next to an alcohol burner no doubt you remember the sting in your eyes and nostrils. Could you imagine a freeway full of them?

-Scouder

 

That sounds like inefficient burn, alcohol being vaporized by the flame and not being burned. ???

 

Probably so. I'm thinking of the racetrack. It is, however, more difficult to get an alcohol motor up to operating temperature, so there may be a slightly longer period of inefficiency at startup.

I have nothing against alcohol engines, in case it sounds that way, but they do have there own set of quirks that need to be considered.

-Scouder

 

Not at all, and not at all.

With fuel injection, and non-race conditions, might be something cool...

 

My point exactly. I'd be setting up my own ethanol fuel still, and the economics of it come out to about $1.00 / gallon if I can sell some of the other byproducts.

For startup, I'd probably run dual tanks and start it up on gasoline. I figure a stone cold engine wont ping. Once it's been running for a minute or so I'd switch it over to ethanol. Sound good?

In addition, it sounds like the ethanol fueled 360 may become a reality this year. I heard on the news today talk of $100 / barrel oil, so the economics of this may become clear sooner rather than later.

The question becomes, what do I put it in? I was thinking a Ford Ranger. Ideas?