Windsor VS Cleveland???
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New User
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Coleman, AB, Canada
Windsor VS Cleveland???
I'm choosing what engine I want to put in my '56 and so fer i have chosen to go with a FORD 351, rather then a chev
,but i just have gotten too confused if i should go with a windsor or a cleveland. my plans are to go with more low or mid ranged torque then horsepower. I'v been hearing alot of different things from people around my small town about either but I still can't decide. so any outside help would be well appreciated. 
,but i just have gotten too confused if i should go with a windsor or a cleveland. my plans are to go with more low or mid ranged torque then horsepower. I'v been hearing alot of different things from people around my small town about either but I still can't decide. so any outside help would be well appreciated.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,578
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From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Here is my .2 cents. I had a 53' with a 351C with 4 barrel heads. Man it would run. What I ended up finding out was that the motor with it 10.5 compression ratio and no Stall converter was to much for what I wanted to do, cruise and enjoy highway cruising. The 351W is a good motor. Although like the Cleveland no longer in production some of the parts interchange with the SBChevy of the 90's, the Ford 5.0. If you so chose you could inject a W. A Cleveland could be done as well if you modify either a 351 W or make a one off intake. I have been told a 351C with 2 barrell heads will do fine on the street. Whatever you decide consider bolting up a AOD to either. I know your engine will thank you and you will be glad you did in the long run.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Santa Clarita
The 351W and 351C are totally different animals. The Cleveland has much bigger heads, valves, exhaust ports, etc. The intakes, etc are not interchangable with the 351 W. The Windsor is similar to the 289 and 302 in design, yet the block is slightly taller than the 302's. The intake is also different because of the taller block. Some guys use the 289/302 camshafts which are interchangable, to run high lifts and durations that most 351W cam grinds don't offer. The Cleveland is an excellent motor for mid range and top end performance. With gears, these engines are difficult to beat. They're also built well and run very hard. The 351W has a lot of torque for off the line performance and the top end isn't bad either. IMO, the Cleveland has more possibilities if your planning on building a super motor to run hard. The 351W is basically a good running reliable engine. I do love the look of the 351C. The heads and valvecovers definitely stand out.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 304
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From: South Central MN
i agree with imlower....the 351c and m are more in the same boat than the 351W, the windsor is in a boat all by itself. i've got a 351W w/ rv cam in a 77, and its got all kinds of torque, low or high end....the only thing i really plan to change is putting a 4 barrel edelbrock on top of it......
if it was me, id stick with a windsor, because ive had good luck with it....its all a matter of "what" you want the engine to do "when"
if it was me, id stick with a windsor, because ive had good luck with it....its all a matter of "what" you want the engine to do "when"
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Seattle WA.
Originally Posted by tacson
Here is my .2 cents. I had a 53' with a 351C with 4 barrel heads. Man it would run. What I ended up finding out was that the motor with it 10.5 compression ratio and no Stall converter was to much for what I wanted to do, cruise and enjoy highway cruising. The 351W is a good motor. Although like the Cleveland no longer in production some of the parts interchange with the SBChevy of the 90's, the Ford 5.0. If you so chose you could inject a W. A Cleveland could be done as well if you modify either a 351 W or make a one off intake. I have been told a 351C with 2 barrell heads will do fine on the street. Whatever you decide consider bolting up a AOD to either. I know your engine will thank you and you will be glad you did in the long run.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Seattle WA.
I keep hearng comments about the 351C being a mid and top end performance engine. I purchased a 1970 Torino with a 351C, it seems like a 100 years ago. That sucker had so much power and torque that it would smoke the rear tires off the line for as long as you kept your foot in it. Probably the most powerful and wildest engine I ever owned over the years.
Rod
Rod
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 203
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From: Glendale, AZ
If you're working with a budget than the 351W is the only way to go. The Cleveland is a wicked engine but along with it is the $$$$$ that its going to cost you. Good Luck and Happy Truck'in
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,578
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From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Originally Posted by 51ford fan
This is the first time I have ever heard of any parts enterchanging between a SBF & SBC other than an aftermarket air cleaner. I learn something new almost every visit to this forum. Could you please elaborate !!!
51,
Sorry to have confused you. I was calling the 5.0, The small block Chevy of the 90's. Once every one including the aftermarket got on board. The speed parts and there availability for a 5.0 became like the Small Block chevy's have been all along. Sorry for the confusion. Even now the 5.0's are priced where folks can build them for not a whole lot more than building the SBC.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Pensacola Florida
Both are excellent engines and when similiarly built produce almost identical numbers. That didn't use to be true but the Windsor now has a ton more parts than the forgotton Cleveland. There is no way you can make the Windsor look as good as the Cleveland. The Cleveland drips tertesterone and bleeds Ford blue. Even if someone doesn't recognize it they know it is a beautiful piece. Do you have a Cleveland? They are getting a little hard to find especially if you are looking for a 4 bbl quench chambered head but you really don't need that. Two bbl heads are great for the street and help low end torque. Austrailian heads are the hot ticket and can be bought easily. You can use either engine and achieve what you want but only the Cleveland will turn on the majic when you pop the hood.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,190
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From: Riverside, So Cal
Finnley -
Welcome to FTE, noobie!
I have a 56 with a 351C in it. I bought a remanufactured long block with the 2V heads and had a Comp Cam (268H), lifters and springs installed and got the whole thing warranteed for 1 year from a company called Recon. I added headers, an Edelbrock Performer manifold and their 600 cfm carb and a Mallory Magnetic Pulse Distributor. Total investment = $2400. I run an FMX 3-speed auto tranny and a 3.50:1 Ford posi 9 inch. Hauls BUTT! Great motor. Tons of tire spinning torque. Lots of fun. Its a daily driver and freeway cruiser. The only thing I would do to it now is add an AOD for the highway.
On the other hand, you can't find any new after market stuff for it. You'll be a junk yard dog to add power steering and AC. Nobody makes brackets. It gets a lot of comments at the cruise nights and its not even dressed out much.
The Windsor offers a lot of aftermarket goodies including serpentine pulleys and EFI, etc. You need to choose either nostalgia or todays modern upgrades. Both engines are good torquers with a lot of midrange hp.
Pictures in my gallery. (click on my name in the post header, pick "View Gallery" from the dropdown menu)
Have fun. Let us know your choice.
Welcome to FTE, noobie!
I have a 56 with a 351C in it. I bought a remanufactured long block with the 2V heads and had a Comp Cam (268H), lifters and springs installed and got the whole thing warranteed for 1 year from a company called Recon. I added headers, an Edelbrock Performer manifold and their 600 cfm carb and a Mallory Magnetic Pulse Distributor. Total investment = $2400. I run an FMX 3-speed auto tranny and a 3.50:1 Ford posi 9 inch. Hauls BUTT! Great motor. Tons of tire spinning torque. Lots of fun. Its a daily driver and freeway cruiser. The only thing I would do to it now is add an AOD for the highway.
On the other hand, you can't find any new after market stuff for it. You'll be a junk yard dog to add power steering and AC. Nobody makes brackets. It gets a lot of comments at the cruise nights and its not even dressed out much.
The Windsor offers a lot of aftermarket goodies including serpentine pulleys and EFI, etc. You need to choose either nostalgia or todays modern upgrades. Both engines are good torquers with a lot of midrange hp.
Pictures in my gallery. (click on my name in the post header, pick "View Gallery" from the dropdown menu)
Have fun. Let us know your choice.
Last edited by Randy Jack; Feb 27, 2005 at 10:31 PM.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Seattle WA.
Could someone please post a picture of each engine side by side. I haven't, or didn't realize there was that much difference in their appearence. I was always told, or read the only difference was the 351W had the fuel pump bolts horizional and the 351C pump bolts were vertical.
Rod
Rod
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 363
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From: New Zealand
aftermarket goodies are readily availible for the clevo - just look towards australia and new zealand - Cylinder Head innovations do some awesome cleveland alluminium heads as does proline - with america you phased the clevo out and stuck the windsor into everything - not so down under - they went from the windsor to the clevo and theres enough fruit around if you know what to look for. best bet if your not sure whatr you want build a clevor - windsor block - cleveland heads - go with the australian 2v closed cham,bers - price motorsport in the usa do all the adaptoirs for manifolds
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Queanbeyan Australia
I had a 351 Windsor in a 56 a few years ago
I had a 351 Clevo in a 53 many years ago
I am putting a 351 Clevo in my 48 F1 I am building........no contest which is the better motor for a truck, low down torque of a clevo with 2v heads beats the windsor any day
No contest as far as factory bits go. The clevo heads flow heaps better than any factory windsor heads, and flow = horsepower and torque
If you go aftermarket heads (=$$$) then they are mostly equal, but the Australian aftermarket "3V" heads have the best flow bench numbers I have seen this side of a BBC or Hemi.
If you can find a good clevo, go for it.
I buy clevo manifolds on ebay in the US all the time. Dirt cheap compared to here. Just received a tunnel ram for my 48, which I will fit with dual imco 425 propane mixers.
Scored a pair of 2V clevo edelbrock torkers for US$65 the pair the other day.....like Christmas all over again.
I had a 351 Clevo in a 53 many years ago
I am putting a 351 Clevo in my 48 F1 I am building........no contest which is the better motor for a truck, low down torque of a clevo with 2v heads beats the windsor any day
No contest as far as factory bits go. The clevo heads flow heaps better than any factory windsor heads, and flow = horsepower and torque
If you go aftermarket heads (=$$$) then they are mostly equal, but the Australian aftermarket "3V" heads have the best flow bench numbers I have seen this side of a BBC or Hemi.
If you can find a good clevo, go for it.
I buy clevo manifolds on ebay in the US all the time. Dirt cheap compared to here. Just received a tunnel ram for my 48, which I will fit with dual imco 425 propane mixers.
Scored a pair of 2V clevo edelbrock torkers for US$65 the pair the other day.....like Christmas all over again.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,497
Likes: 5
From: Tucson AZ
guys, I have a 351-c in my 31 Vicky and "drips testosterone" is the best description I have ever heard for it,Polished weber 48's, polished block and heads, it is candy purple with HPC headers and it never fails to wow the crowd, and it runs like a SAA, 351-C, no other choice for me. The 2v heads are the way to go for the street, they produce their torque at low r's compared to my 4v ramair heads and with the low first gear in an AOD and some 4:11's out back they are SWEET! WHEW, I get excited just talkin about it!
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 115
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From: Norway
I have a 351 W in my 55 F-100 and have really looked hard into the possibility of putting on Cleveland 351C-2V heads. It just seems to be some minor machining of water passages on the heads and a wider intake manifold to make a Clevor.Or am I mistaken?? Will I have problems with my 1976 351W-2V block?