351M Roller Rockers
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Latrobe, Pennsylvania
351M Roller Rockers
Hey Guys, I have a 1978 Ford Bronco with the 351 M in it. I have an edelbrock cam, timing set, intake manifold and I am putting a holley carb on it. I was also looking into installing Ford Racing aluminum roller rockers. The ones I am looking at are found at the following web site. Are there any problems in putting these on? Do I have to get an install kit or anything or will they bolt right on? And will they really improve anything performance wise?
Any comments are welcome, and Thanks
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=fms%2Dm6564 c351&FROM=MG
Any comments are welcome, and Thanks
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=fms%2Dm6564 c351&FROM=MG
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
The Cleveland heads have pedastal mount rocker arms and roller rockers will not fit without conversion to studs. This means machining the heads to accept studs or using a Crane stud conversion kit. The conversion kit is good for mild street engines, but if you are planning on running it hard and fast you should machine the heads and use the heavy screw in studs.
Good luck,
Doc
Good luck,
Doc
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Latrobe, Pennsylvania
The Rocker Arms I am looking at purchasing are my by Ford Racing for the 351M. From what I understand they are made for the pedestal mount and they according to the picture it looks that way as well.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 242
Likes: 9
From: earth
those will work
MB...Man isn't quite right about the conversion to studs for this kit. Here's FRP's site for 351C/M/400 rollers which states that this kit is bolt-on. As to whether the conversion provides better performance/life...it's hard to say. Check this link for more information - FTE search
Either way...good luck,
Chris
Either way...good luck,
Chris
Last edited by unreng; Feb 16, 2005 at 03:22 PM.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,628
Likes: 345
From: Albuquerque
The link is blocked by this site. A little too paranoid there but,,,, If the rockers are the adapter type that attatch with a bolt you will be fine. You will have to manually adjust your valves the first time and make sure the rocker tip is positioned properly on the valve tip. You will also need valve guide plates if they don't come with the rockers.
You probably will not notice a perforance increase but they do reduce friction and wear.
You probably will not notice a perforance increase but they do reduce friction and wear.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: FLOWER MOUND,TX
i'm going to put a set on my m motor but the ford racing one's are too exspensive for me..i'm going with the scorpion set (half the price)...check out ebay..Item number: 7955288908..
Scorpion roller rockers PEDESTAL MOUNT for FORD 351C, 351M, 400, 429, and 460 engines.SCP 1024 1.73 ratio PEDESTAL MOUNT
or 7914879405
Size 7/16" pedestal mount, and 1.73" ratio. Fits all 351C 351M 400 429 460
Improves horsepower and reduces friction
Does not require guide plates, hardened push rods or pedestal machining. Includes pedestal inserts & bolts.
sounds like the hot ticket..
not sure about the improves performance but i'm sure it reduces friction
Scorpion roller rockers PEDESTAL MOUNT for FORD 351C, 351M, 400, 429, and 460 engines.SCP 1024 1.73 ratio PEDESTAL MOUNT
or 7914879405
Size 7/16" pedestal mount, and 1.73" ratio. Fits all 351C 351M 400 429 460
Improves horsepower and reduces friction
Does not require guide plates, hardened push rods or pedestal machining. Includes pedestal inserts & bolts.
sounds like the hot ticket..
not sure about the improves performance but i'm sure it reduces friction
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 689
Likes: 6
From: Rodeo, Ca.
I think the 351M has same rocker setup as my 351C had. When I installed roller rockers I purchased a kit to allow it. I think that's what you will need unless your rockers come with it, (I couldn't get the site to open). The kits are available at Summit, probably this site's sponsors have them also.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 3
From: (near) Denver USA
The FRPP (M-6564-C351) and Scorpion (1024) rockers use the pedestal mount to locate the rocker arm, so they do not require any guide plates or hardened pushrods. They are literally a direct bolt-on replacement for the OEM rocker arms, with the benefits of a roller bearing fulcrum and roller tip.
Unless you have an outrageous cam, the only "advantage" of stud-mounted rockers is that you can adjust lifter preload (or valve lash with solid lifters) by turning the adjusting nut on the stud. With pedestal-mounted rockers, including the FRPP and Scorpion units, you have to use a shim between the pedestal and the fulcrum base to adjust preload (or lash), just like you do with OEM rockers.
Unless you have an outrageous cam, the only "advantage" of stud-mounted rockers is that you can adjust lifter preload (or valve lash with solid lifters) by turning the adjusting nut on the stud. With pedestal-mounted rockers, including the FRPP and Scorpion units, you have to use a shim between the pedestal and the fulcrum base to adjust preload (or lash), just like you do with OEM rockers.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
You learn something new every day. When I built my 400 8 years ago, nothing like these were available that I know of. I was pleasantly surprised to know that such rockers are now available.
Have a great day,
Doc
Have a great day,
Doc
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Bear- The link was not blocked it was just way too long. Kind of like a lot of those eBay links.
MB- Those pedestal mount rockers from Ford have been around longer than 8 years. I have a 97 catalog (probably published mid 96 and in production for at least 6 months b4 that) and they are not listed as "new" for that year. The Ford parts are made by Crane according to a Crane company rep.
MB- Those pedestal mount rockers from Ford have been around longer than 8 years. I have a 97 catalog (probably published mid 96 and in production for at least 6 months b4 that) and they are not listed as "new" for that year. The Ford parts are made by Crane according to a Crane company rep.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: MI
All the aftermarket roller rockers I have check out so far are actually BBC 1.70 ratio rockers so you will probably suffer from reduction in lift a .519 lift cam would become .510. To further aggravate the issue with out adjusting push rod length to accomidate proper valve tip contact more lift can be lost.
I am building a C motor with .570 intake lift. With stock push rods I ended up with only about .510 lift. To correct this I went to better than .500 longer than stock push rods and got about .545 lift and the rocker arm slot then got to close to the stud and nut at full lift. I then added valve lash caps to bias the rocker to wards the push rod and was able to shorten the push rod to 8.7 vs stock 8.5 non Boss are 8.4 I believe and got .559 lift. Had to go to longer studs and modify the guide plates. You might have better luck with lower lift cams. I tried 3 different cam co.s rockers they say 1.73 but they figure to 1.7 when measured at the valve.
I am building a C motor with .570 intake lift. With stock push rods I ended up with only about .510 lift. To correct this I went to better than .500 longer than stock push rods and got about .545 lift and the rocker arm slot then got to close to the stud and nut at full lift. I then added valve lash caps to bias the rocker to wards the push rod and was able to shorten the push rod to 8.7 vs stock 8.5 non Boss are 8.4 I believe and got .559 lift. Had to go to longer studs and modify the guide plates. You might have better luck with lower lift cams. I tried 3 different cam co.s rockers they say 1.73 but they figure to 1.7 when measured at the valve.
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Pedestal mount rockers that I have found for the 351C/M/400/429/460 are adjustable with a shim kit, usually a set of .030 and .060 shims. Beyond that if you do any wild machining you will need to get different pushrods. To keep your geometry correct even with stud mounted rockers you need to get different pushrods.
Many stud mounted rockers ARE just BB Chevy units with a 1.7 ratio, some are not. The Pedestal mount units are made for the application and should be 1.73 ratio. I will have to measure my Scorpions when they are installed to actually know. According to the company they are 1.73 ratio. The Ford units are listed as 1.73. When machining a blank aluminum part on NC machinery it is easy to just make a small dimensional change to make the proper ratio. I had one local supplier of SB Ford units offer to make me a custom set for $250 at about the same time I bought my Scorpions for $180.
MB, too bad you didn't go to the local Ford dealer. Back then there were some Yella-Terra units available from Australia also ($350 tho).
Many stud mounted rockers ARE just BB Chevy units with a 1.7 ratio, some are not. The Pedestal mount units are made for the application and should be 1.73 ratio. I will have to measure my Scorpions when they are installed to actually know. According to the company they are 1.73 ratio. The Ford units are listed as 1.73. When machining a blank aluminum part on NC machinery it is easy to just make a small dimensional change to make the proper ratio. I had one local supplier of SB Ford units offer to make me a custom set for $250 at about the same time I bought my Scorpions for $180.
MB, too bad you didn't go to the local Ford dealer. Back then there were some Yella-Terra units available from Australia also ($350 tho).
