I would if they screwed it up.

When I talked with the mechanic, he mentioned nothing of IH IDI's being any trouble to take the GP's out of. He did make the comment that he has run into some that have been "a'dog" to change out, but nothing more than that. He said that their labor rate for changing 8 GP's on an IH IDI 6.9L would be $50-$100. If nothing is said about me being responsible for breaking the GP tips off, then it's their baby.

Nightrain

 

So you'd consider it their fault if the tips are swelled?
Even if you have a pushbutton controller?

 

It is called "the price of doing business". Most shops quote a price based on the hours required (and specified) by the manufacturer to do the job. If the shop does the process correctly, and quotes appropriately, then they shouldn't have to worry about a GP tip being left in the engine. As an example, my wifes Mazda needed a new head gasket. We took it to the dealer (yikes) and they estimated the costs and provided a quote. We had them do the job, but the mechanic who did it maded the mistake of putting the new gasket in upside down, a common occurance with the 4 cylinder engines. Sure enough, within a week on getting the car backk the head cracked and needed to be replaced. Guess who paid? Not me. You dont take on work if you dont know how to do it, unless you want to be held accountable for poor performance or you're really lucky.
Jim

 

I don't think that quite compares. You situation resulted from the mechanic making a mistake.

The other situation invloves a (possibly) pre-exisiting condition.

 

Actually, it is a perfect example. If glow plugs are properly changed (cylinder at TDC, intake closed) then any tip that may break off (for whatever reason) can be retrieved w/o lunching the motor. If a mechanic is not familiar with the process and decides to do the work and something bad happens, guess who is at fault. Whatever the cause of the GP tip falling into the cylinder and wrecking a motor, logic (and legal precedent) dictates that the mechanic pulling the GP's is not covered by "Act of God" in this case. If any mechanic doesn't know how to do the job, they should say so, rather than risk their reputation and much more. If the tips are swollen, and it breaks and falls into the precombustion chamber, it can be retrieved with marginal effort. Now if you took your truck to Jack-in-the-Box and had the guy behind the counter change the GP's, I could understand your argument. Maybe you are a mechanic?

 

That's where the problem comes in. Any mechanic that knows the IH GP system will tell you that any tips that break off, are your responsibility. They get even more wary when they see a push button GP controller. The ones who don't tell you that, obviously, have never dealt with a broken tip. Also, they're the ones that will try to pass one, without even informing you.

Who do you want working on your rig? The one that says nothing, or the one that tells you your responsible?

 

Once again, any mechanic who knows how to r&r the GP's will also know how to keep them from falling into the cylinder. So many people have the push button, cuz it works. Any mechanic that tells me that his incompetance is my problem, can **** in his hat.

 

I would hate to do business with you
glow plugs swell and break off
poop happens
shops should warn of potential problems and the customers responsability to at the very least help out with if not pay for the repair
these things happen at shops all the time

I prefer to offer help to get us out of a situation with both people happy (shop and customer)
most shops are here to fix cars, not just make money they should help out, however they shouldnt have to pay completly for any virtually unavoidable situations

 

Sure the push button controller works. But you have to know how to use it. I have employee's driving my trucks. Do you really think I'd trust them to use a push button properly?

Ever heard of someone loaning out their truck and something bad happening to it? Like Ga$ in the fuel tank? It's to easy to melt a tip with the push button controller. Not a chance I'm willing to take

 

Geez,I guess I dont understand. If somebody quotes me a price for a job, and blows my motor up 'cuz they don't know what they're doing, I should pay to repair the motor? Changing GP's is not that big of a deal. Worst case scenario is the heads come off for about $150 unless some doofus doesn't know what he's doing and ruins the motor. I don't know of too many businesses that are without risk. Just like if you hire an idiot and he causes problems that cost you money. I had a guy format a couple of servers that cost me about $5000 to recover the data. Should I expect my customer to pay any share of the cost? If a competent garage gives a quote for GP replacement, they either include an amount for the possibility of problems. If they don't and wreck the motor, they pay. I'm out.

 

Sorry Toy but you are off a little on this one. Book time to change the glow plugs does not include the added hassle of rotating the engine for each one. So if the mechanic was going to do it the safe way he would have to charge more than book to make a profit on the job. It's a high risk for a low paying job. So basically what is happening is the mechanic is refusing to do the job because he doesn't like the odds. Which is his right. If you are willing to change those odds by allowing him to be not responsible for broken tips then he may take on the job.

Speaking as a mechanic, though I work hourly and not flat rate, I can still say that if a tip broke off it would be extremely tempting to run the engine and try to blow it through, especially if the mechanic was a little less than honest. The way a flat rate man makes his money is to figure out how to short cut the book. 99% of the time this is all fine. However with broken tips we know it's a gamble. A flat rate man's inclination is to take that gamble. An even less honest one might figure that if one or more tips does embed in the piston without any immediate problem then it is more return business for later.

I have no idea how often this stuff takes place. I do not work in the flat rate world for John Q. Public. I work in a government fleet where it makes me look bad when things break so I do it by the book most of the time. But I do work and train with these sorts of people from time to time.

Birken

 

I've been wrong before. I think it is important to realize that you are saying the same thing I am. Instead of "do it the safe way" it should be "do it the correct way". If somebody quotes you $50 to change your GP's then you should know that he isnt going to be doing it the "safe/correct" way, unless he is magic. It still doesnt mean that the mechanic can ruin your motor 'cuz he wanted to take a shortcut, although I believe that you get what you pay for. Oh yeah, you can do two GP's when you rotate the motor to TDC. I have done it and it took about 2 hours w/ beers. Of course the tips didnt break off, but at least I was prepared for the problem.

 

If your going to take your truck in for GP R&R. Wouldn't it be prudent for you to ask the mech what his procedure is, and what plan of action will be taken if any are broken off?
That way all bases are covered.

All's I'm saying is, that there are horror stories of peeps expecting a $150 bill for changing GP's. Coming back to get their rigs and they dont run. Dont take the small chance that it could be you.

I guess this got way off the topic of Ether usage?

If I were you, I'd make sure your GP setup is up to snuff, and abandon the use of ether. I have a timer on my block heater. With 3-4 hrs of block heater, 1 cycle of the stock GP, my truck will fire up in -35F weather, like it was +75F.

 

umm, have a read
here

 

Someone should help that guy. $2000! How did that happen? Like PT Barnum said...