Where is the proof?
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 168
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From: Washington
Where is the proof?
This may not be the right forum but I can't help but ask. Where is and what is the proof (besides leaving the programmer installed when you bring the truck to the dealer) that programmers or chips leave a traceable code for dealers to deny a claim. 
I would like to see the proof that this a true statement. If all else fails take the chip/programmer out before you go to the dealer. Again, where is the proof in writing?
I would like to see the proof that this a true statement. If all else fails take the chip/programmer out before you go to the dealer. Again, where is the proof in writing?
Elder User
Joined: May 2003
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From: NW Montana
Originally Posted by J.Lauer
This may not be the right forum but I can't help but ask. Where is and what is the proof (besides leaving the programmer installed when you bring the truck to the dealer) that programmers or chips leave a traceable code for dealers to deny a claim. I would like to see the proof that this a true statement. If all else fails take the chip/programmer out before you go to the dealer. Again, where is the proof in writing?
I would like to see the proof that this a true statement. If all else fails take the chip/programmer out before you go to the dealer. Again, where is the proof in writing?Any ideas???
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 1997
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From: Enjoying the real world.
There is no code to indicate a chip or tuner has been installed. While installed it will set a code but disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes with the headlight switch on or clearing the codes with a code reader will remove the code.
New User
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Originally Posted by webmaster
There is no code to indicate a chip or tuner has been installed. While installed it will set a code but disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes with the headlight switch on or clearing the codes with a code reader will remove the code.
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: CA
You shouldn't have any 'fault' codes.. When you disconnect/interupt the KAM (keep alive memory) for the PCM you will display a P1000 code.. This is a 'sytem check' incomplete code, that all OBD II vehicles use, and gives a indication that the batteries have been disconnected/dead or someone has 'cleared' the memory.. Thus giving them (Ford) the idea that a programmer has been, or was installed. Not proof though.. When the tuner 'or' diagnostic tool/power interupt clears the memory, the drive cycles or diagnostic monitors need to be 'reset' which will occur during normal driving over a 'usually' short amount of time if conditions are met. The drive cycles can be 'forced' resest with a specific series of driving occurances.. But, should you need to remove a tune, and you have a Predator or SCMT, you can 'not only' remove the tune, but check to see if the 'system check' code has been completed and the OBD II code ability is 'ready'
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Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by mitch236
should I clear all fault codes as well?
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Central Texas
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Reset allows the scan tool to command the PCM to clear all emission-related diagnostic information. When resetting the PCM, a DTC P1000 will be stored in the PCM until all the OBD system monitors or components have been tested to satisfy a drive cycle, without any other faults occurring. For more information about a drive cycle, refer to Drive Cycles in this section. Clearing DTCs from the vehicle-specific RETRIEVE/CLEAR CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCs will clear all systems, including the OBD systems. Clearing DTCs from the OBD generic menu will only clear OBD features for the 6.0L diesel.
The following events occur when a PCM reset is performed:
Clears the number of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC).
Clears the DTCs.
Clears the freeze frame data.
Resets status of the OBD system monitors.
Sets DTC P1000 as a vehicle-specific DTC. P1000 will not appear as an OBD DTC.
Resetting OBD DTCs
Refer to the manufacturer manual for scan tool instructions.
Resetting KAM
Disconnect the negative lead from the battery for a minimum of 5 minutes.
After KAM has been reset, DTCs P1000 and P0603 will be stored in the PCM.
The following events occur when a PCM reset is performed:
Clears the number of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC).
Clears the DTCs.
Clears the freeze frame data.
Resets status of the OBD system monitors.
Sets DTC P1000 as a vehicle-specific DTC. P1000 will not appear as an OBD DTC.
Resetting OBD DTCs
Refer to the manufacturer manual for scan tool instructions.
Resetting KAM
Disconnect the negative lead from the battery for a minimum of 5 minutes.
After KAM has been reset, DTCs P1000 and P0603 will be stored in the PCM.
Note here how to clear the DTC P1000:
Drive Cycles
OBD Drive Cycle
Description
The primary intention of the OBD Drive Cycle is to clear the DTC P1000 and to satisfy the specifications for SAE specification J1979. Each OBD monitor must run during the drive cycle.
If the drive cycle is completed and P1000 is not cleared, repeat the entire drive cycle. If a particular step is interrupted, simply repeat the drive mode. If the drive cycle is interrupted with a key-off, only drive modes that were incomplete must be run.
CAUTION: Strict observance of posted speed limits and attention to driving conditions are mandatory when proceeding through the drive cycle.
Rough road conditions may prevent certain steady state conditions and steady accelerations from validating the transmission- and load-related monitors.
Vehicles equipped with Power Take-Off (PTO) must have that system disengaged before the OBD drive cycle is initiated.
Drive Cycle Procedure:
Key on. Do not crank until the WAIT TO START light cycles, or at least 10 seconds, whichever is greater.
Start the engine. Idle in PARK or NEUTRAL for 40 seconds.
The following outlines the appropriate conditions for running certain OBD monitors that require the engine to be under load:
Accelerate steadily to third gear (M/T use fourth gear) and hold at 1500 rpm for 3 seconds. Accelerate steadily from 35 mph to 65 mph over approximately 15 seconds (M/T 11 seconds minimum).
Repeat Step 3a three times while maintaining the conditions in Step 3a.
Before proceeding, turn all accessories off and disengage tow/haul.
Before continuing, EOT must exceed 60°C (140°F).
Idle the vehicle for 20 seconds in PARK or NEUTRAL.
Key off.
Start the engine. Idle in PARK or NEUTRAL for 40 seconds.
Rerun Quick Test.
Note: If P1000 is present after running the drive cycle:
Rerun Step 3a, being certain to maintain a minimum MFDES of 35 mg/stroke above 2,000 rpm for 11 seconds. Also, maintain a minimum MFDES of 30 mg/stroke above 2,800 rpm for at least 6 seconds.
Rerun Step 8. MFDES must remain below 12 mg/stroke for 11 consecutive seconds.
OBD PID Data Monitor
The PID monitor for OBD offers real time evaluation of several emission-related parameters. Most of these are related to the HO2S for which the diesel has no equivalent. The only parameters that apply to 6.0L diesel applications are DTC CNT, MAP, MIL, RPM and VSS.
Accessing the PID Data Monitor
Refer to the manufacturer manual for scan tool instructions.
OBD Pending DTCs
Pending DTCs are DTCs that have only set during one drive cycle and may not have set the MIL yet. These DTCs can be identified using the Retrieve Pending DTCs feature. Additionally, they will be found in the vehicle-specific mode RETRIEVE/CLEAR CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCs from the instant the DTC is set.
This function will only report pending failures that have occurred during the present or previous drive cycle, but will not indicate single failures that happened on any two previous drive cycles.
OBD Drive Cycle
Description
The primary intention of the OBD Drive Cycle is to clear the DTC P1000 and to satisfy the specifications for SAE specification J1979. Each OBD monitor must run during the drive cycle.
If the drive cycle is completed and P1000 is not cleared, repeat the entire drive cycle. If a particular step is interrupted, simply repeat the drive mode. If the drive cycle is interrupted with a key-off, only drive modes that were incomplete must be run.
CAUTION: Strict observance of posted speed limits and attention to driving conditions are mandatory when proceeding through the drive cycle.
Rough road conditions may prevent certain steady state conditions and steady accelerations from validating the transmission- and load-related monitors.
Vehicles equipped with Power Take-Off (PTO) must have that system disengaged before the OBD drive cycle is initiated.
Drive Cycle Procedure:
Key on. Do not crank until the WAIT TO START light cycles, or at least 10 seconds, whichever is greater.
Start the engine. Idle in PARK or NEUTRAL for 40 seconds.
The following outlines the appropriate conditions for running certain OBD monitors that require the engine to be under load:
Accelerate steadily to third gear (M/T use fourth gear) and hold at 1500 rpm for 3 seconds. Accelerate steadily from 35 mph to 65 mph over approximately 15 seconds (M/T 11 seconds minimum).
Repeat Step 3a three times while maintaining the conditions in Step 3a.
Before proceeding, turn all accessories off and disengage tow/haul.
Before continuing, EOT must exceed 60°C (140°F).
Idle the vehicle for 20 seconds in PARK or NEUTRAL.
Key off.
Start the engine. Idle in PARK or NEUTRAL for 40 seconds.
Rerun Quick Test.
Note: If P1000 is present after running the drive cycle:
Rerun Step 3a, being certain to maintain a minimum MFDES of 35 mg/stroke above 2,000 rpm for 11 seconds. Also, maintain a minimum MFDES of 30 mg/stroke above 2,800 rpm for at least 6 seconds.
Rerun Step 8. MFDES must remain below 12 mg/stroke for 11 consecutive seconds.
OBD PID Data Monitor
The PID monitor for OBD offers real time evaluation of several emission-related parameters. Most of these are related to the HO2S for which the diesel has no equivalent. The only parameters that apply to 6.0L diesel applications are DTC CNT, MAP, MIL, RPM and VSS.
Accessing the PID Data Monitor
Refer to the manufacturer manual for scan tool instructions.
OBD Pending DTCs
Pending DTCs are DTCs that have only set during one drive cycle and may not have set the MIL yet. These DTCs can be identified using the Retrieve Pending DTCs feature. Additionally, they will be found in the vehicle-specific mode RETRIEVE/CLEAR CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCs from the instant the DTC is set.
This function will only report pending failures that have occurred during the present or previous drive cycle, but will not indicate single failures that happened on any two previous drive cycles.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,646
Likes: 1
From: Milky Way Galaxy
Proof! I think you've mistaken Ford and dealerships for a court of law. Ford or the dealership don't need proof to deny your claim. They're counting on the fact that most people will leave it at that and not take them to court. Ford's policy is written in their warranty booklet and places the burden of proof for component failure because of the addition of an aftermaket performance part on Ford not the consumer. Proof, like your civil rights, only count in court. Anyone who's ever said "I have my right's" to a cop knows what I'm talking about (but that's for a different thread.)
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
From: Tennessee
My truck has a OBD II Monitor Code hung up in my code system. I pulled the codes on my egr valve with my new OTC Genisys reader and then it put the code for obd II in my system? Whats the deal, now it wont clear!
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
Disconnect the batteries for 5 minutes. This will clear it. They go through the proceedure that is listed above.
Originally Posted by PSD6litre40
My truck has a OBD II Monitor Code hung up in my code system. I pulled the codes on my egr valve with my new OTC Genisys reader and then it put the code for obd II in my system? Whats the deal, now it wont clear!
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
Originally Posted by EnviroCon
Proof! I think you've mistaken Ford and dealerships for a court of law. Ford or the dealership don't need proof to deny your claim. They're counting on the fact that most people will leave it at that and not take them to court. Ford's policy is written in their warranty booklet and places the burden of proof for component failure because of the addition of an aftermaket performance part on Ford not the consumer. Proof, like your civil rights, only count in court. Anyone who's ever said "I have my right's" to a cop knows what I'm talking about (but that's for a different thread.)
The only time he may deny a warranty claim is when it is a situation dubious enough that he may not be paid by Ford. It has been our experience that Ford dealers have repaired or replaced every single truck that had legitimate warranty issues.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
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Bob
I dont understand how you can make a statement like that,ford has not fixed every truck with a problem, they dont know how to fix the trucks with poor mpg problems and have taken the stand that 12 mpg is all you can expect. they have not fixed the exhaust fumes problem but instead said it normal, they have not fixed the coolant leak problem. and unless you work for ford you could never even know how many problems there are. It seems easy to brush off the problems others are having with there trucks when you dont have any, but the problems are real and in many areas of the country the dealers dont have a clue as how to fix the problems, and not everyone has the time or money to constantly take there truck in for repairs. again not try to start any thing just think it is easy to only see one side of the problem.
I dont understand how you can make a statement like that,ford has not fixed every truck with a problem, they dont know how to fix the trucks with poor mpg problems and have taken the stand that 12 mpg is all you can expect. they have not fixed the exhaust fumes problem but instead said it normal, they have not fixed the coolant leak problem. and unless you work for ford you could never even know how many problems there are. It seems easy to brush off the problems others are having with there trucks when you dont have any, but the problems are real and in many areas of the country the dealers dont have a clue as how to fix the problems, and not everyone has the time or money to constantly take there truck in for repairs. again not try to start any thing just think it is easy to only see one side of the problem.