330 hd engine won't fire
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330 hd engine won't fire
I have a 78 ford bus with a 330 hd engine that i just put back together, and i can't get it to fire (i had both heads worked on - a couple new valves, a few new seats...). I just assembled everything, and all it does is cough and occasionally blow fire through the carb. Im positive that the distributor is installed right...i installed it a tdc on the compression stroke, then turned it to 6 degree btdc and installed the wires. any ideas of what is wrong? can someone tell me everything that couple possibly make the engine cough through the carb like that - with occasional flames?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
I had this same kind of thing happen when I built my 390. I could have swore that the timing was right, but I ended up having to advance it A LOT. Try advancing it and see if it helps. Advance it until it runs, then check it with a timing light. I think you'll be surprised. I sure was.
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From: Evanston, WY
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but every time I've had this problem the distributor was installed one tooth retarded. The symptoms are EXACTLY what you describe, an occasional rough cough, or a cough through the carb with flames. The first time I did this I thought it might be fuel related, so I checked the float level in my Holley, spilling fuel all over the manifold in the process, next belch through the carb lit the whole top of the motor on fire.
I'm curious, how exactly did you set the dizzy to 6btc with the motor not running?
Just for grins, without changing the wires or moving the distributor body, lift it up and move the rotor 1 tooth clockwise, then try to start it again. Can't hurt, and if it doesnt work you can prove me wrong.
-Scouder
I'm curious, how exactly did you set the dizzy to 6btc with the motor not running?
Just for grins, without changing the wires or moving the distributor body, lift it up and move the rotor 1 tooth clockwise, then try to start it again. Can't hurt, and if it doesnt work you can prove me wrong.
-Scouder
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In response to Scouder's question about how i set the timing to 6 btdc with the engine not runnning - here is the answer...and i think it might be the problem too...
this bus is actually my friends bus - im just doing the posting - but he cranked the engine over to 6 btdc on the damper and then installed the plug wires so that the rotor was facing wire #1 at 6 btdc. I have mixed feelings about doing this...i have no idea if this is right or not....let me know if that is bad to do.
this bus is actually my friends bus - im just doing the posting - but he cranked the engine over to 6 btdc on the damper and then installed the plug wires so that the rotor was facing wire #1 at 6 btdc. I have mixed feelings about doing this...i have no idea if this is right or not....let me know if that is bad to do.
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Post Fiend
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From: Near Fresno, California
Unless you verify the engine is on the compression stroke, the timing could still be 180 degrees out. TDC mark will occure at both the top of the compression stroke, and again at the top of the exhauset stroke (which would be 180 out).
People tell me they can tell by holding a thumb over the spark plug hole and feeling the compression but I have always just watched the valves.
People tell me they can tell by holding a thumb over the spark plug hole and feeling the compression but I have always just watched the valves.
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Post Fiend
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From: Iowa
Bingo! I'll bet he turned the engine backwards to get to 6 BTDC. The timing chain always has a little slack in it, so... I think you can see where this is going. Also, you need to look at where the points are opening. I use an ohm-meter.
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From: Evanston, WY
No problem doing that. It should get the engine running enough for an "ear" tuneup until you get the timing light on it. As long as it's 6btc on the compression stroke, as stated in one of the other posts.
If it were fuel starvation you wouldn't get the flames, so I still suspect retarded timing. Another thing to check is the distributor drive gear. Make sure the pin isn't sheared off, allowing the gear to spin on the shaft. That can create the symptoms you describe as well.
Keep us posted on your progress.
-Scouder
If it were fuel starvation you wouldn't get the flames, so I still suspect retarded timing. Another thing to check is the distributor drive gear. Make sure the pin isn't sheared off, allowing the gear to spin on the shaft. That can create the symptoms you describe as well.
Keep us posted on your progress.
-Scouder
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This is Virgil, the owner of the crippled bus:
1 tooth retarded? I have had fits getting the distributor in, it goes down but its hard to get that last 1/4 in down- i think its having trouble engaging the oil pump. But I really dont understand why it has to be installed exactly TDC. The way I understand this, as long as you can move the cap far enough, it wouldnt matter exactly where it was installed. I would pull the thing out and move it a tooth, but its going to be really hard, so I'm waiting on that.
If the timing is retarded by one tooth, wouldn't you be able to compensate for that by moving the cap?
The way I believe I set the time on 6 degree with the engine off was to set the timing mark on 6, and then hold wire #1 to a ground, and then turn the cap until it sparks, and tighten it down right there. I found this in a book, it made sense to me, and it worked when I did it, so it seemed like it must have been right.
So let me know if you adamant about this i tooth retarded deal.
1 tooth retarded? I have had fits getting the distributor in, it goes down but its hard to get that last 1/4 in down- i think its having trouble engaging the oil pump. But I really dont understand why it has to be installed exactly TDC. The way I understand this, as long as you can move the cap far enough, it wouldnt matter exactly where it was installed. I would pull the thing out and move it a tooth, but its going to be really hard, so I'm waiting on that.
If the timing is retarded by one tooth, wouldn't you be able to compensate for that by moving the cap?
The way I believe I set the time on 6 degree with the engine off was to set the timing mark on 6, and then hold wire #1 to a ground, and then turn the cap until it sparks, and tighten it down right there. I found this in a book, it made sense to me, and it worked when I did it, so it seemed like it must have been right.
So let me know if you adamant about this i tooth retarded deal.
Last edited by eandaauto; Jan 29, 2005 at 11:30 PM.
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From: Evanston, WY
If you don't have a vacuum canister, you may be able to advance the dizzy enough to compensate. I guess you could also just move the wires 1 position clockwise as well. Besides, I had brain fade when I said to move the rotor 1 tooth clockwise. It should be move the rotor 1 tooth COUNTER-clockwise to advance it.
The problem you are having with the last little bit seating the dizzy is common. It is caused by the oil pump driveshaft being out of phase with the socket on the bottom of the dizzy. Once you hit the obstruction, just crank the engine a little, and it will fall right in. The dizzy is engaged by that time, so it will turn with the engine and stay timed. Just don't let the dizzy body turn with it.
-Scouder
The problem you are having with the last little bit seating the dizzy is common. It is caused by the oil pump driveshaft being out of phase with the socket on the bottom of the dizzy. Once you hit the obstruction, just crank the engine a little, and it will fall right in. The dizzy is engaged by that time, so it will turn with the engine and stay timed. Just don't let the dizzy body turn with it.
-Scouder
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From: Missouri
Also keep in mind that many of these old balancers have slipped. You may find that it says your initial timing is way off when it is running right. If you are sure you have the order right and you used the correct numbering pattern on the cylinders then just keep advancing it until you get it to run. You may have to move the wires on the cap to get it right but it will eventually get there. Remember that on an FE the cylinders are numbered front to back starting on the passenger side.
I never pull a distributor and change teeth positions to get an FE timed. Just keep moving the wires on the cap.
If you find the engine kciking back on the starter then you are close but you will need to retard the timing a little.
I never pull a distributor and change teeth positions to get an FE timed. Just keep moving the wires on the cap.
If you find the engine kciking back on the starter then you are close but you will need to retard the timing a little.