86 F150 300-6 carburated 4 speed (overdrive) 2 wheel drive. Currently has 135,000 miles. I'm the 2nd owner, got it at 112,000 miles a year ago. I deliver pizza with it, so it gets started 15-30 times a day. I'll start from the beginning. June of 04 the starter jams in the flywheel so I remove it, then roll it to start it. I install another starter off of a mechanically identical truck I have, which has what looks like a freshly rebuilt Napa starter, and all works fine. November 2004 the starter starts to start slowly at first then zip the engine starts. I don't do anything to the truck accept switch to a different but also newer battery and it still starts with hezitation. Mid December the starter jams in the flywheel as it won't start or roll for a start. I remove the starter, then it does roll for a start. Having cold spells I just park it at the top of the hill and roll it for a start every day. 2 weeks ago I install new cables going to the positive and negative sides on the starter, install a new starter solenoid on the wall next to the battery and install a circular shim with the starter that I had taken out in December. (There are 1-2 spots on the engine side of the flywheel where the teeth are a "little" worn, but not chewed up or ground away, still most of the teeths metal is there in the lightly worn spots) I try to start it and the only thing that happens is the radio going out, then coming back on when I let the key back from the start position,,, no clicking noise, no click noise you would hear if the starter gear just engaged the flywheel but not turning the engine. Everything else works fine and the truck can roll or be pulled for a start.
Earlier this week I install a "new" Napa rebuilt starter minus the circular shim and it works, works that is for a day. After that 3 times it would start the starter for a fraction of a second, but not long enough to start the engine.
Friday 1-28 I remove the safety switch thats attached to the clutch pedal and hard wire it (bypass the switch), still the same old thing, radio goes out but absolutely nothing else happens, radio comes back on when I let the key back to the on position. Then I install a new ignition switch thats down on the column, under the dash and make sure it is adjusted correctly, and same thing as before just the radio goes out. I try it again with the hard wire unhooked for the clutch safety switch and nothing. I give up and roll it down a hill to start it. I have been rolling it down a hill for over a month to start it and leaving it running all day long of course locked up. I'm completely at my wits end trying to figure out what else could effect the starter circuit. I really think its electrical and not mechanical. Its costing lots of extra $$ to leave it running. Any help, any ideas will be greatly, greatly appreciated.

 

Check your grounds. Replace the neg batt cable if you haven't yet. The original neg batt cable goes from the batt to the frame to the engine. Most replacements only go the the engine or frame. Make the batt ground to the engine and make sure there is a good (read BIG) ground to the frame. Make sure all your ground points are clean of rust, grease, paint etc...

Hope this helps,
David

 

I'm not that familiar with the standards so this may be stupid, but is there a neutral switch on the transmission? You can test the circuit back to the ignition switch by applying 12 volts to the solenoid to see if it is pulling in the solenoid when you turn the key to start. As you said there should be at least a click when the soenoid is pulled in. I had a similar problem on my '84. It turned out to be the neutral switch but I did run through a lot of what you have had to. Make sure the solenoid on the fender wall there is grounded good. It grounds through the body of the solenoid. When you apply 12 volts to the switch it will pull in the high amp switch to the starter. You should be able to start the truck that way if the solenoid is good and the clutch switch is bypassed. It is a pain but better than having to roll down the hill. If you can pull in the solenoid manually the your problem lies in the circuit back to the key. Sorry I can't help more. But you can count on this; I'm here for moral support!

 

CORRECTION: I kept saying "Solenoid" when I meant Relay. If you take a test wire from the possitive terminal to the realy you should be able to kick the starter over. If you have your multimeter clipped to the terminal going to the starter from the relay and the other lead on the neg side of your battery, then touching the test wire to the pos terminal and the relay (the one with only one wire) it should pull in the realy and attempt to start the truck. The clutch switch may prevent it so you may have to bypass it for the test.

 

Scott, You can use a wire to jump from the positive battery side to the starter terminal on the selonoid and the truck will try and start. It doesn't matter about the netrual or clutch safety switch.

The fact that the radio goes out says that there is a high current draw when you try and start the truck. Old Fords are known for bad grounds. I had the same thing happen to all 3 of my trucks at one time or another. The ground goes bad and it doesn't want to start. The bad thing is that when the ground is bad but still good enough it ends up killing the starter. Learned that the hard way on my Bronco. I had 2 starters die, then the ground went. The 3rd starter didn't last that long either...

David

 

Thanks David,

I thought the radio as well as every other accessory went out when the key was turned to start because it is wired to do that. Most likely to protect that circuit from high amps. I agree with you on the ground though. Even when the cable looks good it can be bad. In especially wet areas moister actually wicks up the cable from the crimped end and can corrode inside invisibly. From your response though I take it that the starter can be trashed within a couple of days, or as Boyd said in 15 to 20 starts.

 

Boyd; Using a voltmeter, measure the battery voltage at the battery posts (not the clamps) while a helper tries to start the engine. The battery voltage should be about 12V before trying to start should and about 10V while trying to start. If the battery voltage drops significantly below 9V, that indicates the battery may be at fault. If the battery voltage stays in the 10 to 12V range while trying to start the engine, the problem is probably the starter itself or the relay/cables.

Next measure the voltage at the starter while the helper tries to start the engine. If the voltage at the starter is more than 9V and it doesn’t spin, the problem is probably the starter itself.

If the voltage at the starter is significantly lower than the battery, the problem is probably the start relay or the cables. If your troubleshooting indicates the relay or the cables, I recommend you take Scott's advice and just replace them with new units. They aren’t that awful expensive and are probably cheaper that the gas you use keeping the truck running all day.

If the problem is the starter itself, perhaps some other forum user will jump in with recommendations about what brand replacement starter to use. When my starter gave out, I bought NAPA’s guaranteed for life unit. I figured if it crapped out again, it would be their problem.

Good Luck - I hope you have a garage to work in, its a little nasty out there today. Let us know how this all turns out.

 

Quite a few things mentioned above might cure the problem. Since you were using an identical starter are you sure it is exact? Ford makes quite a few different starters that all appear the same but have different throws. I read you had gotten another Nappa starter just dident see if you had the old one you took from another truck warrentied out or actually got the replacment for your truck. Seeing how someone had a shim on it just makes me a little cautious.

So make certain it is the correct starter.

Mentioned abouve was jumping the terminals on the solenoid to see if it enguages properly. Since this will give direct current to the starter it can eliminate the positive cables as a problem and usually means the negitive is ok too but theres less draw when you jump the terminals so triple check the ground cable and all ground connections.

If the starter doesent enguage replace it again and get a new solenoid. When a starter sticks the solenoid sticks closed too and it can go bad real quick.

 

I had the exact same problem with my 80 150 right after I first got it. I went thru 4 starters and 3 solenoids before I happened to lean my forearm against the Neg cable one day when it was running----Hot, burn, pain, exessive swearing-----

The moral of the story is that there was a bad spot in the Neg cable that did not show till the cable got hot... sometimes the truck would start and other times it would not. the problem seemed to be intermittent.

I replaced the Neg with a homemade cable (1/0 welding cable with copper lugs) and never had another problem. ever since then the first thing I do when I aquire another old ford is replace the battery cables (all of them)

 

I agree that you should change your cables. My grandfather had a 78 F-150 and he went thru 3 starters, (which I had to change), before he noticed the ground wire arching when I tried to start it.

 

Starter, both cables going to starter, solenoid, ignition switch are all Brand New.
I bypassed the neutral safey switch friday.
Saturday I grabbed an insulated wrench and touched it to the two posts on the solenoid and it started like a charm. So the problem is somewhere in the starting circuit,, ground or some other wires running to/from ignition switch and neutral safety switch. Its a $300.00 truck but still a decent truck. I might just install a remote start switch like someone mentioned on this or another forum.

 

check the alternater.you might have a flaw which is fouling the charge going through the electrical system.it would drain the power needed to get a clean start.also replace the grounds.

 

Alternator was checked 2 months ago and is just fine. I tried adding grounds to it today with no change.

 

Sounds to me like a bad solenoid. Even though its new its possible its bad.

 

In essence what you have done with pliers is eliminate ignition switch and neutral safety switch,if you shorted from+ to S terminal on relay,if you shorted both large posts you also eliminated the relay.